18-07-2002 04:15									#1
	The benefits of being Commercial? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Soren just posted this in the v1.29 readme thread about improvements to the Commercial trait in this patch:

quote: cities and metropolises get an _additional_ extra commerce or two and the "Optimal # of Cities" is increased by 25% instead of 12.5%.

How much do you guys think this will improve the Commercial trait?

Too little improvement so that it is still a poor trait?

Too much improvement so that it is overpowering?

Or just right?

(I haven't made this a poll because this forum is always better for in-depth discussion than random clicking )

	18-07-2002 04:34									#2
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Well, without having it playtested (...erm...that was redundant, wasn't it ) I'd say it adds quite a bit attractivity. It's still not a #1 trait, but much better than it was. Imagine in the midgame you have 30 cities on a standard map. That's 30 gpt more for you and a remarkably lower corruption, which adds also a good amount of gpt.

	18-07-2002 04:41									#3
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That's what I was thinking.

Commercial might be similar to Expansionist insofar as it is a better trait the larger map you play on.

More land usuall equals more cities, which will enhance the bonus given to the Commercial Civ for it's Gold per Turn and corruption.

It will be interesting to see how this changes the balance of power. Rome should become even more attractive - Militaristic + a great UU + the new-and-improved Commercial trait.

	18-07-2002 11:14									#4
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This is an interesting question Poet, I think it is a definitely a noticeable difference, in a recent game as India I was pulling in a pretty substantial haul, which allowed me to invest more in science, which led to quicker tech-development! If commercial is indeed improved in the 1.29 patch this could become a very useful thing indeed.


Maybe this commercial thing ain't half bad after all?

Last edited by monkspider on 18-07-2002 at 13:05

	18-07-2002 12:24									#5
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I think it's important to note that this extra commerce is "raw" commerce, i.e. pre-improvement commerce. The extra commerce will then be doubled or tripled by various city improvements, so really I think it'd be more like 75+ gold/science per turn for a 30-odd city empire. And this, mind you, wouldn't account for the overall reduced corruption benefit, so I'd expect the final take to be substantially higher than that.

Pity, though, they didn't include reduced-cost marketplaces, banks, harbors and airports as well. Or maybe they did, but didn't mention it in the read file....

	18-07-2002 13:01									#6
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This could make commercial a great trait for the peaceniker, imagine, havine the flexibility of either bumping up science another 10% or having a bunch of extra units guarding that volatile Japanese border.

	18-07-2002 17:40									#7
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Im happy improvements were made to the commercial trait. Its possible its one of the strongest traits now, but it certainly isnt overpowering.

	18-07-2002 19:56									#8
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Sounds good.... but to me, it's the distance based corruption that is more important. If being commercial lowered that, then I'd think it was a really solid trait. Having lowered distance corruption in the early game would be a real advantage.

The extra money is nice too. But I think shields are more important for most of the game.

So, like Sir Ralph said, it's still not a top-tier trait, but it's better. France and India in particular are much more alluring now. Greece and Rome... to an extent. England still sucks.

-Arrian

	18-07-2002 20:32									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Sounds good.... but to me, it's the distance based corruption that is more important. If being commercial lowered that, then I'd think it was a really solid trait. Having lowered distance corruption in the early game would be a real advantage.

Maybe they could change the Expansionist trait as well. Make it reduce the distance corruption. That way, England would have two corruption reducing factors going for it, which could make England quite powerful.

	18-07-2002 20:39									#10
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I like that idea very much dunk!

Is that gonna be possible with the new editor? - or are we going to have to keep nagging Firaxis about it?

	18-07-2002 22:05									#11
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All IMHO... A very good touch by Firaxis. In general, early benefits are much better than later benefits. What you do and how well you do it at the beginning can definitely make any late game trait or UU irrelevant to winning or losing the game.

Making Commercial very powerful is great so that civs who have more power early on (expansionist, militaristic) should pay attention to the later benefits of lower corruption and additoinal income benefits of the metropolis and cities of Commercial civs. 25% may be the level I think is balanced.

Expansionist may be useless in the late game, but it is most useful during the most critical time in the game - the beginning. I wouldn't touch it. The possibilities of an Expansionist civ in the early game to establish high populations (with granaries from the start), good maps and a tech lead is quite reasonable (on maps other than archipelago).

Now, I can always wish that they would put almost everything in the editor so I can find the balance that works best for me...