18-07-2002 15:39									#1
	Base Placement strategies Get a bigger avatar today!

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=54872

This thread is just a placeholder for the link above.
That thread has been hijacked, and its title didn't hint at all at the actual issue discussed inside it
This way it will be easire to search for in the future.
Feel free to continue the discussion here, or there, but maybe not in *both* threads

	19-07-2002 05:55									#2
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[threadjack]Your handle sounds like a psychoactive substance I smoke from time to time [/threadjack]

	19-07-2002 06:41									#3
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(Marione)

"About your last statement tho, I have to point out:
you KNOW that if your base produces two minerals, all you'll EVER get from production carryover will be those two minerals.
You KNOW that overpaid minerals CANNOT be carried over. Only EXCESS PRODUCTION minerals will be. All the minerals shown in red in your box are just wasted money when you rnd your turn.
If your base does not produce at least 10 minerals, you'll never have 10 minerals carried over for the next turn.

This is not an opinion.
It's a well known fact, debated, verified and reminded in the past in more than a thread."

Hmmm,

I'm pretty sure that I have used this technique in the past, though not all that often. It is surely in Vel's latest SMAX guide on page 80. Perhaps this changed between SMAC and SMAX (which IIRC you don't have).

	19-07-2002 13:56									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Iskandar Reza [threadjack]Your handle sounds like a psychoactive substance I smoke from time to time [/threadjack]

Hi Reza, I'm MoSe @ACOL & @CG, SquidLace @CGN

Actually, in italian the suffix -one means big, thus my ID here means Big MariO.
Only LATER I realised how it sounded with the english pronunciation! That was.. a not planned collateral effect!
I won't refuse that interpretation, although it's just a thing of the distant past, for me...
___
Sikander, Vel's Guide it's not the Bible, it's not error-free.
The thread I was referring too indeed pointed out that exact error in Vel's guide.
It's easy to self-test tho.
About the version issue, I remember testing it *long* ago, with Aredhran & JAMiAM. For sure what I report applies to SMACv4, I can't say just offhand for earlier patches.
___
PS: I gave in to SMAX about 1 year later than its publishing, I still regard it mainly as a costly SMAC patch, I only play SMAX with the original 7 factions, but I have it.
I use still to do my tests in SMAC, and I can't recall whether I reiterated this one in SMAX, or if I just took it for granted, not wanting to waste any money in my actual SMAX games...
But very likley I DID re-check it in SMAX when I posted in the mentioned thread, which was less than a year ago, or even more recent.

	19-07-2002 14:25									#5
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I didn't observe any difference between SMAC and SMAX in excess minerals (but didn't do a thorough testing). AFAIK, in both you can't carry over the "red" minerals in the production box, and not more than ten of the actual production queue (which improved my mental arithmetics skill lately). The AI carries everything over in both games (which kills a bit the fun of rushing an SP just when the AI is about to finishing it).

	19-07-2002 22:30									#6
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Oops! An error in the guide! I've admittedly never had much patience for those kinds of testing, and can see how that one woulda slipped thru the cracks....who the heck has bases with under ten minerals of production?

-=Vel=-

	20-07-2002 09:10									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Oops! An error in the guide! I've admittedly never had much patience for those kinds of testing, and can see how that one woulda slipped thru the cracks....who the heck has bases with under ten minerals of production? -=Vel=-

Yea, it just doesn't come up very often that I have tons of cash and no minerals.

	20-07-2002 18:46									#8
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LOL!

I confirm what I already knew and always had:
I retested it for the n-th time just to be sure, and indeed you can't carry over more than the minerals you produce, with a maximum of 10.
Thus, overpaying is a waste: none of those red bricks will be ever carried over.
All those who thought so have always been under a false impression, and never *properly* tested the feature.

Overpaying has only one very minor application:
if you SWITCH then prduction before comleting the turn.
I expound:
you know that units hurry cst depends on the missing minerals.
If you miss more than 40 minerals to build a unit, those will cost more than 4ec each.
Facility minerals always cost 2ec each, regardless of the amount missing.
Switching to a unit will halve the minerals in excess of 10. Even that way, you'd have paid units minerals 4 each, by rushing the facility.
Optimal start for this trick is when you exactly have 10 minerals, no less (to avid paying double), no more (or at least very few more, unless you're *already* producing a facility).

In such case, you can pick any facilty, even a cheap one. You can indeed overpay that facility, and you'll very likely have to, as to get for instance 60 minerals in the end for your unit you must pay for 10+50+50=110 minerals for the "buffer" facility.

You see that such cases are mere theory, it's exceptionally rare that you find yourself in such situations.

Other exceptional occurrence, is when you know that next turn you'll discover a less industry intensive SE model, and you'll want to switch as soon as you discover it, before turn updates.
Imagine: you are runnig Planned, you are going to discvover IndEcon and you know you'll want to switch to FM during the "discovery pop-up", to begin the turn with the extra energy . Your items will cost 10% more, when it will come to next turn updates. if you want to rush items now, you must take into account the new cost, and this could lead you to overpay.
These "overpaid" minerals will not be actually such, as the item will be produced applying the new higher cost.
Also this is just theory tho...