18-07-2002 19:00									#1
	Pre amendment debate : gallup polls Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

No that the election heat is over, I suggest an amendment to the constitution about unofficial "gallup" surveys.
Jdd2007 posted one before the elections, and many people disagredd with the principle. A majority wanted to restrict them in some way (see this link)

My amendment proposal is

quote: No Citizen can post an unofficial survey which could be confused with an official election.

The court would have to decide if the said survey can be deemed "confusing" or not. This proposal is vague enough, IMHO, to satisfy people who wanted to absolutely forbid gallup surveys, and people who wanted to restrict them mildly.

Second proposal, after SirRalph's feedback

quote: (same as above, plus) A gallup survey is always deemed confusing if it is opened between the 7th and the 18th of each month

Now, this first tentative is far from perfect, so please discuss !

	18-07-2002 19:02									#2
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I can't remember exactly, but im pretty sure the gallup pole that was created for Trip and I had a one vote difference

A gallup pole might aid troublemakers (even those among us) to see where they have to vote if they want to fowl up the vote. It is now of my opinion that they need some banning!

	18-07-2002 19:15									#3
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Ninot :
Thanks for sharing your views, but the issue on whether we should ban / restrict / always allow them has already been discussed.
I'll poll for this amendment in a few days, after this amendment (and not the general issue it deals with)has been discussed. I hope to see people giving their ideas to make it better.
Unfortunately, if we want the amendment to pass, I think we cannot suggest to ban them completely, as many people wanted to allow these polls in all cases.

	18-07-2002 19:24									#4
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Very good proposal, Spiffor!

As for "confusing": We could add, that such "unofficial" polls are considered to be confusing, if they are open for votes (not already closed) within a time span of 3 days before to 3 days after an official election. So, if an election runs from 10th to 15th of a month, any "gallup poll" open in the time span between the 7th and the 18th of this month shall be considered "confusing" and illegal.

	18-07-2002 19:44									#5
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Well, I don't think it's confusing if it says "Gallup Poll" in the thread title.

	18-07-2002 19:54									#6
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. THey are harmless. If it says the words "unofficial" and "survey" or "gallup" it cannot be confusing. I will not accept any amendment that does not automatically exempt any poll with those words.

	18-07-2002 20:01									#7
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Im against restricting the freedom's of our citizens to conduct unofficial polls and surveys. I am fine with requiring the word "Unofficial Gallup Poll" expressly in the thread title though to avoid confusion.

	18-07-2002 20:11									#8
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wervdon sums it up for me, too.

	18-07-2002 20:13									#9
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 . THey are harmless. If it says the words "unofficial" and "survey" or "gallup" it cannot be confusing. I will not accept any amendment that does not automatically exempt any poll with those words.

A non-American does not necessarily know, what "gallup" means.

	18-07-2002 20:14									#10
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but they do know what unofficial and opinion survey mean.

	18-07-2002 20:17									#11
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And what do you have against restricting such crappy "surveys", while official polls run, CivMan2000?

	18-07-2002 20:24									#12
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quote: Originally posted by wervdon Im against restricting the freedom's of our citizens to conduct unofficial polls and surveys. I am fine with requiring the word "Unofficial Gallup Poll" expressly in the thread title though to avoid confusion.

	18-07-2002 20:27									#13
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It's unnecessary. It is a pointless infringement on the rights of the people that does not belong in a democracy.

	18-07-2002 20:31									#14
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wervdon: are you in the DIA? If not you should join, you share our ideas

	18-07-2002 20:46									#15
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Please, this is no place to say if you approve restricting gallup polls or not. You'll say this when the amendment will be put to vote. This thread is here to discuss an amendment about this, since a majority stated we need an amendment.
Once the amendment is ready, after some debate, I will post a poll about it. If you completely reject the idea of restricting such surveys, please say so in the poll.
Thanks in advance.

	18-07-2002 20:51									#16
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Well then i suppose this will be my last post in this thread.

	18-07-2002 22:36									#17
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The point is, we disagree with the very idea of the amendment, so we point that out.

	19-07-2002 00:27									#18
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The amendment as it stands (modified with Sir Ralph's clause, of course) looks good to me. We probably shouldn't strengthen it further; the amendment may have a tough time passing as it is.