19-07-2002 04:51									#1
	Geopolitics: The Map, 1400 BC Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Pondering the map now before us (1400 b.c.), I have been reassessing our geopolitical outlook. Several thoughts occur to me right off the top of my head.

1) The Aztecs will be bad news. We probably want to think twice about pruning the Germans: we want to keep a fairly strong barrier in that direction. If we weaken Bis too badly, the Aztecs will roll right over him.

2) Greece looks like another serious threat. Maybe we want to rethink targetting France for pruning war number two. Any chance we could foster an war between Greece and France, to weaken either side? I'm worried Greece will expand unchecked northward -- especially once we've debililtated America.

3) OTOH, if we avoid taking on either France or Germany, we are casting around without a dance partner for the second of warfare.

Thoughts?

	19-07-2002 05:07									#2
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(round two)
The southwestern part of the continent looks to me like it will be more contained. I see Rome, Babylon, and Russia all growing strong, but in a tight knot down there. With luck, they each check and balance the other. Powers to contend with down the road, but I see little risk of a dominant superpower emerging there.

(The Iroquois look even worse off than we do. I wonder whether they'll even manage to build a mounted warrior!)

So I would predict we will see the following, by the middle/late stages of the game. A superpower to the NE: Aztecs. Persia fairly strong to the SE (interesting to see whether they will be able to squeeze the English. Looks like a possibility.)

We rule the central part of the continent, a superpower ourselves, natch, but uneasily guarding long borders to both the west and east. Greece lined up against our north-western border. France, a weakened power to our southwest. The Iroqouis marginal if they've managed to survive. And three big powers further est.

	19-07-2002 05:11									#3
	Re: Geopolitics: The Map, 1400 BC Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Robber Baron 2) Greece looks like another serious threat. Maybe we want to rethink targetting France for pruning war number two. Any chance we could foster an war between Greece and France, to weaken either side? I'm worried Greece will expand unchecked northward -- especially once we've debililtated America.

How would we foster a war between them without getting ourselves in a mess of our own? IF we do decide to start a war and take sides, we should probably ally with Greece - that way, they'll focus their efforts toward France, giving us the necessary diversion we need to sneak up there and grab the land. Plus, the more land we can get from France, the better. There's a lot of fertile land down south (near the Babylonians/Russians), and we could probably be able to take some of it assuming we can wrestle control of the Great Rift away from France. Meanwhile, while Greece has been concentrating on our war, we've blocked their northern expansion with a couple of well-placed cities. We could create an "axis" down the center of the continent, and get some of the Ivory Coast/Incense Valley while we're at it. However, this would take a huge amount of resources and time. Any comments or suggestions?

	19-07-2002 05:12									#4
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I always thought we shouldn't war with French before we're late in the game, because many people don't have crapstart, and will want to expand in the Notylopan area.

I couldn't attend the chat, and I don't know if Persians have Iron in their territory (or next to their territory). If not, they could be a possible target once we defeat the Americans. If we conquer the Persians in the near future, we get good land (as opposite to France), and get rid of a serious threat in the middle term future.

However, if Persians have Iron, we must forget it.

	19-07-2002 05:20									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor However, if Persians have Iron, we must forget it.

They will, once the city of Antioch expands...

	19-07-2002 06:02									#6
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I agree generally robber barron, but I envision this general strategy.
1)Initial Wars
a) America
b) France
2) A period of expansion and consolidation AND a war with greece.
3) Consolidation of our power in the center of this continent
4) All out war either sw or ne(against the strongest might be best.)
I haven't thought of details beyond the war with america, we'll have to see how much we need to build our forces afetr that. But this kinda give my overall philosiphy. Step 3 is the true building phase where we get our culture very high. But first we must get to that step.
Aggie

	19-07-2002 06:17									#7
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Also notice there is what appears to be an unoccupied new landmass across from the Greek city of Pharsolos which they will probably colonize and grow into. Greece will probably be strong.

After America I think expansion north towards the Ivory Coast and south to Uber Isle should be top priority.

	19-07-2002 06:37									#8
	Re: Re: Geopolitics: The Map, 1400 BC Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Edrix How would we foster a war between them without getting ourselves in a mess of our own?

Yeah, I see your point.

quote: Originally posted by Edrix IF we do decide to start a war and take sides, we should probably ally with Greece - that way, they'll focus their efforts toward France, giving us the necessary diversion we need to sneak up there and grab the land.

Interesting. What worries me about this scenario is the likelihood it will strengthen Greece even further (allowing her to plunder and profit off of France at the same time as we do). But if we played it right....

	19-07-2002 07:20									#9
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Here is my prediction of what will likely happen in the future (not played ahead, just guessing).

That's why I advocate fully concentrating on a push north, and then west through france.
full argument here

I'd love to clear the Greeks out, they are like a dagger through our potential empire. But no can do with those hoplites guarding. We'd need knights at the very least to win, unless we want to waste massive #s of troops (which we can't afford to).

I see the Aztecs expanding unchecked, except by the Germans. We are in a VERY tenuous position, no, let me rephrase. Our position now is virtual death. Our possible position after a successful war with America will be tenuous. Even if our war goes supremely well, let's not kid ourselves. That will be no advantage, just staving off death for a while. Unless we get at least France's land plus the Fragrant Valley, we can't hope to dominate against the Aztecs (or whoever else).

Epistax posted a better map, I'll see about making a better version.

(edit: France is west, not east! as RB kindly pointed out.
and I can't seem to edit jpgs for some weird reason, I'll have to go to another computer. )

Attachment: minimappredict.png
This has been downloaded 80 time(s).

Last edited by Captain on 19-07-2002 at 07:47

	19-07-2002 07:25									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Captain We are in a VERY tenuous position, no, let me rephrase. Our position now is virtual death. Our possible position after a successful war with America will be tenuous. Even if our war goes supremely well, let's not kid ourselves. That will be no advantage, just staving off death for a while.

Jeez.

Nice cogent analysis, though. I am basically in full agreement.

	19-07-2002 07:34									#11
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Another thought. (Sorry I keep lobbing posts in here. My mind is on fire.)
This map strongly suggests to me (as Aggie observed) that we need to think about building up a strong culture as soon as we've established a presence in the central part of the continent. Cause it looks to me like a scrum with Greece for resources and luxuries, and we will need to buttress our empire with all kinds of ramparts. (Remember, I'm an Imperialist, not a Hawk.)

Question: Given this map, if you could pick any spots within the boundaries of realistic wishful thinking, where would you place our FP and relocated palace? (No fair trying to swallow the entire continent -- I'm talking, plausible scenario.)

Last edited by Robber Baron on 19-07-2002 at 07:49

	19-07-2002 07:48									#12
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edited above post to fix west-east thing.

oh, and aside from tonight, i'll be away for all of tomorrow. So seeing as to how these threads are all spawning like mad, let's try to link them all into one?

	19-07-2002 07:49									#13
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FP would be great in the Fragrant Valley, if the Greeks don't get there first.

	19-07-2002 07:53									#14
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I'd place the FP on the north east boundary of America. From there, we'll be able to expand in all directions.