12-08-2002 00:21									#61
	Re: Firaxis! Oceania wants in... Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by NeoStar Of course I'd like it to be Australia but its fine as long as someone gets in there - Fijian, Samoan, Aboriginal (the natives of Australia, European OZ may be only 200 years but they've been around for 40 000). You get the idea. Something Pacific.

I agree with Oceania being unrepresented, but 40,000 years for Aborigines. Don't make me laugh!

They had 40,000 years to develop and all they could come up with is a boomerang! No, sorry don't agree with that mate.

These people they dig up an Axe or something and its dated in multiples of 10,000. Don't believe all this text book rubbish they teach at school nowadays, about 5,000 years seems a more realistic figure to me.

	12-08-2002 12:50									#62
	Re: Re: Firaxis! Oceania wants in... Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by The Kaiser I agree with Oceania being unrepresented, but 40,000 years for Aborigines. Don't make me laugh! They had 40,000 years to develop and all they could come up with is a boomerang! No, sorry don't agree with that mate. These people they dig up an Axe or something and its dated in multiples of 10,000. Don't believe all this text book rubbish they teach at school nowadays, about 5,000 years seems a more realistic figure to me.

It may be strange...

But Im not joking. Just because they didn't start any wars it doesn't mean there new. Because of the hardships the Aborigines suffered they make sure we know all about it - and they have heaps of Aboriginal evidence from skeletons to spears that do date back to 40 000 years

If you read my big speech on the first page it explains this - another perhaps more prominant reason is the entire basis of their culture is to respect the land and co exist with nature - a weird concept for most of the developed world.

It was their culture that suppressed them. That's how strong it is.

Still don't belive me mate? Type +aborigines +40000 in google.com and see the heap of matches. Please take the time to research things before you say anything

Oceania was not advanced - but it goes back a while.

	14-08-2002 05:34									#63
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Well, i can imagine when playing a huge map of Earth (for a touch of realistic gaming), discovering Australia and fellow Oceania to be completely colonized by the Americans I think the Aboriginals need to be there for a bit of historical accuracy!

I can imagine a cool special unit for them too-
The Tracker
...can spot enemy units long before they spot him, i.e. having to stand right next to him! The Tracker would also most be a stealth unit!

	15-08-2002 01:38									#64
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This deception, that "Australia is a multicultural country", is designed to make you believe that there is no distinctive Australian identity, and that therefore you do not belong to that unique Australian identity.

Australia is "multi-cultural" in the same way that a white dog is "multi-coloured". Just as it is idiotic to call a white dog multi-coloured because it has a pink tongue and a black nose, so it is idiotic to call Australia multicultural just because it has a few minority ethnic cultures represented here -- Australia is a mainstream-culture society. The often repeated slogan, "Australia is a multicultural society", is actually a "clever" political tactic to justify the perpetuation of various ethnic groups in Australia, and the resulting downgrading of our national identity and culture. The Australian nation is actually a "core-culture" society (a far more accurate and truthful description).

Australia is not part of Asia. Thats a deliberate invention. Don't be fooled by this spurious argument. Australia may be close to Asia, just as Europe shares a land border with Asia (and, at Gibraltar, is only a few miles from Africa). This does not mean that Europe is part of Asia (or Africa), just as having Asia as an adjoining region does not make Australia part of Asia. Australia is a separate continent (one of the seven major continents of the world).
History reveals that Asians never attempted to develop Australia, and it was the vision of Europeans that created our civilisation. Its future belongs to Australians and their descendants. Australia is enormously different to Asia, in various ways such as our culture, identity, people, and way of life.

This nonsense, that "Australia is part of Asia" is promoted by internationalists so that you will align yourself with a future of Asianisation, especially economic integration and migration. It is just another form of "cultural cringe".

	15-08-2002 02:41									#65
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Concur with thefact that Australia/Oceana should be it's own culture group. Just because of it's proximity to Asia or remote European heritage does not mean it's either Asian or European.

Ironically, many folks say the opposite regarding America. Some want to place America into the European culture group because it's 'close enough'.

	15-08-2002 04:07									#66
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

What the?!

OK, I got some time to kill and this thread isn't getting any livelier...

quote: Originally posted by Ragnarok This deception, that "Australia is a multicultural country", is designed to make you believe that there is no distinctive Australian identity, and that therefore you do not belong to that unique Australian identity.

Multicultural is an identity - while its influenced heavily by Europeans the meld we have is pretty unquie. I'm not made to belive anything mate, ever visited Sydney?

quote: Originally posted by Ragnarok Australia is "multi-cultural" in the same way that a white dog is "multi-coloured". Just as it is idiotic to call a white dog multi-coloured because it has a pink tongue and a black nose,

God, now this is getting stupid. Sorry folks, this redneck isn't representative of the average Australian. Do you live out in the middle of nowhere or something? There are three asian families living in my street.

quote: Originally posted by Ragnarok so it is idiotic to call Australia multicultural just because it has a few minority ethnic cultures represented here -- Australia is a mainstream-culture society. The often repeated slogan, "Australia is a multicultural society", is actually a "clever" political tactic to justify the perpetuation of various ethnic groups in Australia, and the resulting downgrading of our national identity and culture. The Australian nation is actually a "core-culture" society (a far more accurate and truthful description).

Now this is bit more intelligant. First of all, let me get this straight - I never said Australia is part of Asia, Im for Oceania here and we have plenty of links to that, there is a strong seaside culture (just go to Bondi).

What you are getting at is that the 'propaganda' that we are multicultural is designed to degrade our identity - but that's just the way you look at it. I like to think of the diversity we have melding together instead of staking it out on their own and this happens (eg mainstream OZ culture has little in terms of unquie food - we have eagerly adopted Asian foods which are very popular). On the other hand we do have a strong 'mainstream' culture which has a number of good things going for it - just go to any Wallabies game. The point - you reckon ethnic communities stay away from it (and in some cases that's the case) but the majority of them adopt it with their own.

quote: Originally posted by Ragnarok Australia is not part of Asia. Thats a deliberate invention. Don't be fooled by this spurious argument. Australia may be close to Asia, just as Europe shares a land border with Asia (and, at Gibraltar, is only a few miles from Africa). This does not mean that Europe is part of Asia (or Africa), just as having Asia as an adjoining region does not make Australia part of Asia. Australia is a separate continent (one of the seven major continents of the world). History reveals that Asians never attempted to develop Australia, and it was the vision of Europeans that created our civilisation. Its future belongs to Australians and their descendants. Australia is enormously different to Asia, in various ways such as our culture, identity, people, and way of life.

Australia is not part of Asia. SO? No arguement there - I know the so called 'Austral-Asia' is one made mostly for trade and profit. Your getting too complicated when you say Europe is just as close, you cant generalise Asia like that. Unlike the Asian powers they are surrounded by the ones we're below (Japan, China) are big and influential so its a different effect. Im not even bothering with the rest of your rambling, of course the future belongs to Australians - our culture and geographic position is more 'Oceanic', than Asian and it has plenty of European about it.

quote: Originally posted by Ragnarok This nonsense, that "Australia is part of Asia" is promoted by internationalists so that you will align yourself with a future of Asianisation, especially economic integration and migration. It is just another form of "cultural cringe".

The 'yellow invasion' eh? I thought we left that idea behind with the 'White Australia' policy in the 60s. There are heaps of Asians and there culkture can be seen everywhere but they overall count for less than 10% of the population and many I know are quite 'mainstream'.

When we look past the idiocy and exaggeration of some of your comments, there is some sense to what you are saying. Multi culturalism can be seen and used in a good and bad way, but I for one belive mostly in the former. Maybe its something more special to the east coast but that's where most of Australia lives.

Look I just want Australia or any Pacific nation in Civ3. I dont mind the odd debate but it's just a game! This arguement is so out of place

	16-08-2002 18:31									#67
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Oceania civ good idea
The polynesians were certaintely great sea farers and would be my choice, a canoe (1-1-2), transports 1, no tech pre-req, could be a good UU. Not sure what sort of bonus otherwise.

In fact it'd almost need a sea farer civ trait, something like:

• 1-1-2, 1 transport, no tech. (like the scout)
  
• Bonus resources at coastal cities (+1 food @ size1, +2 food @size6, +4 food @size 13)?
  
• Half price trade buildings.
  
• Start with pottery?
  

	17-08-2002 17:45									#68
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quote: Originally posted by HAND I can imagine a cool special unit for them too- The Tracker ...can spot enemy units long before they spot him, i.e. having to stand right next to him! The Tracker would also most be a stealth unit!

Like that idea. Since no Pacific civ will come in PTW, it could be made setting a unit with radar and making it invisible with a movement of 2.

Makes sense too

quote: 1-1-2, 1 transport, no tech. (like the scout

That could be another - it was already mentioned somewhere above. Allowing access to water so early could really pay dividends.

That (with the ANZAC and slingshot fella) makes four possible UU for a Pacific civ. I personally have hardly given up - Im moding an entirely complete Oceanic Civ (and a seperate 'Australia') as soon as PTW is released (and proves to be worth buying )

Oceania will get its place, even as a mod