Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Civ3-Democracy Game-Archive > THe real OFFICIAL poll: Bill of Rights
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Vote yes or no for each clause:
This poll is closed.
Clause 1: Yes 37 78.72%
Clause 1: No 9 19.15%
Clause 2: Yes 37 78.72%
Clause 2: No 9 19.15%
Clause 3: Yes 37 78.72%
Clause 3: No 10 21.28%
Clause 4: Yes 32 68.09%
Clause 4: No 15 31.91%
Clause 5: Yes 39 82.98%
Clause 5: No 8 17.02%
Clause 6: Yes 39 82.98%
Clause 6: No 6 12.77%
Clause 7: Yes 30 63.83%
Clause 7: No 15 31.91%
Clause 8: Yes 36 76.60%
Clause 8: No 12 25.53%
Banana (abstain) 3 6.38%
Total: 47 voters 100%
  [Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Author
Thread    < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 21-07-2002 17:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
THe real OFFICIAL poll: Bill of Rights Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Vote yes or no for each clause. All clauses with 2/3 for yes will be included in amendment. Poll closes 7/26 (5 days).

I wrote most of this, but some is taken from proposals by Togas and Sirotnikov (I want to give them credit!).

Clause 1: No person shall be denied the right to become a citizen of Apolytonia.

Clause 2: No citizen shall ever be denied the right to vote in any poll.

Clause 3: Free speech shall not be abridged unless it violates apolyton rules.

Clause 4: No one shall be banned permanently from participating in the democracy game, excluding those who are permanently banned from apolyton. Note that people may still be banned for any amount of tiem, as long as it is not permanent.

Clause 5: THe right to associate into any form of organization shall not be denied.

Clause 6: No citizen may be punished in any way without due process of law.

Clause 7: No president shall ever use a version of the game which is not available to all players.

Clause 8: THe government may not knowingly hide information or give false information to the people.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 21-07-2002 18:10
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok, I am seriously pissed. It still won't let me vote. I'm going to send a PM to Ming. Anyway, here is how I would have voted: 1 yes 2 yes 3 yes 4 yes 5 no 6 yes 7 no 8 yes.

civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 21-07-2002 18:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

if any of them are especially close your votes will be taken into account.

Sir Ralph is offline Sir Ralph
Emperor
Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 21-07-2002 19:09
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

8x No

Epistax is offline Epistax

Prince
of Bananas
May 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 21-07-2002 22:32
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

i voted banana AND i voted in each right. Does that make me special?

5-- no. There could be an association with the purpose of splintering off the game into two groups, for instance.

7-- I voted yes, but kinda wish I could take it back. The president can use a different version than others providing that the output is the same. This will probably never come up, but the wording is bad.

Sheik is offline Sheik
King

May 2002
time: 00:21
  Old Post 21-07-2002 22:35
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes to all!

Jonny is offline Jonny
Emperor
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Nov 2000
time: 23:21
  Old Post 21-07-2002 23:38
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

I would vote yes to all, but I can't vote!

MrWhereItsAt is offline MrWhereItsAt
Emperor
New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:21
  Old Post 22-07-2002 00:56
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

Guys, there is a thread or two about voting problems in the Community forum - I'm too lazy to find it for you though.

I can't vote first time either - but I have found if I go back to the thread and vote again, it works this time around.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 22-07-2002 04:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

1. Yes. We want to share the fun with every interested people !
2. Yes. Provided we can (temporarily) ban someone from citizenship

3. No. It should say : "unless it violates rules of Apolytonia". I'll explain why :
In all cultures/civilizations/communities, there are some things people can't say without getting a sanction (it could be death penalty for insulting the king, it could be angry looks for being rude... anyways, for a sociologist, there are taboos in every human groups).
Let's face it, taboos DO hinder human freedom of speech. When the law doesn't punish their transgression, the society does (just imagine what would become of someone wearing an "I love Ben Laden" T-shirt in NY).
In our young Democracy Game, we have specific taboos, who have nothing to do with the rest of Apolyton forums. The best example is playing ahead and tell the future : ask most non DemoGamers, they'll spontaneously ask why it's bad. By forbidding soemone to tell the results of his playing ahead, we actually hinder his freedom of speech.
As time will pass by, we'll develop new taboos, like any society / community. If we don't want some blind sanctions for those who transgress the taboos, we need to stop this "absolute freedom of speech" hypocrisy. If we do this, our justice and laws will exert a fair and even punishment, rather than letting the populace do the dirty job.
(I insist : look closely at social relations, and you'll see that even politeness is a limitation to freedom of speech, albeit not a legal one)

4. Yes. We should forbid mistakes and always give second chances. However, we should have very long banning periods for those who act like jerks for the sake of it.

5. Yes. Otherwise, this is not a democracy.

6. Abstain. Our newborn law can't prevent everything (esp. things about breaking taboos, see above). If our law has ways to punish retractively (meaning a new law can apply for crimes before it was made), then my vote would be yes. But if not, well, our law cannot prevent everything.

7. Abstain. If only an extremely tiny minority (say 1-2 people) can't play with the new version, I say we could continue. Esp. since very few people attend turnchats, and play along. Most citizens rely on minister's feedback, or reporters, to live the game (IMO).

8. Yes. The government shall serve the people of Apolytonia, not the other way around. If we lose this sight, we aren't a democracy anymore.

GodKing is offline GodKing
Emperor
Detroit
Feb 2002
time: 00:21
  Old Post 22-07-2002 18:15
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I am nervious about this whole idea....
but I'll vote in favor anyways.

UnOrthOdOx is offline UnOrthOdOx
Emperor
Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:21
  Old Post 22-07-2002 22:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Guys, there is a thread or two about voting problems in the Community forum - I'm too lazy to find it for you though.

I can't vote first time either - but I have found if I go back to the thread and vote again, it works this time around.


I am pretty convinced it is an AOL problem, as I have never had trouble using anything else. Perhaps it has to do with thier ip's, perhaps the way it handles cookies, I don't know, but voting is spotty when I use it, but perfect when I use other isp's.

civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 06:16
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

bump...so far all clauses except 4 and 7 are passing.

jdd2007 is offline jdd2007
King
Cincinnati
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 06:33 Visit jdd2007's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

the most important and controversial amendment is missing. what happened to

quote:
5. No one shall be denied the right to post an unofficial poll, unless it violates apolyton rules, is off topic, or it is redundant with a pre-existing thread.
?

[from the old bill of rights thread]

we should at least vote on it. it is by far the most important one, but you didnt put it into the poll

jdd2007 is offline jdd2007
King
Cincinnati
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 06:42 Visit jdd2007's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

because i dont think we ever had an official poll for it

Timeline is offline Timeline
King
Sunshine State, USA
Nov 2000
time: 00:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 07:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

According to your own rules civman you must count the abstain percent against every one of your "options".

Kinda crazy huh?

civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 17:33
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

jdd: I think that is covered in freedom of speech.

Timeline: Not so. Everything is based on how many votes the "yes" options get, that is all that really matters. IIRC, you were the one that made me pointlessly also have no options. If someone votes abstain AND votes yes for all the options, the abstain is really banana and they're jokingly voting for it. If they don't vote at all in any option they actually are abstaining, and the vote count is increased by one, so abstains are counted by just looking at the yes votes.

Sir Ralph is offline Sir Ralph
Emperor
Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 19:54
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This poll is ridiculous. 39 voters so far, and if Civman wouldn't bump it permanently, it would be already hidden at page 5. Nobody seems even to care to read through this stuff. For a constitutional amendment, that is pretty unpopular.

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
King
Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 20:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

I just don't think many people are voting right now. My election thread has only 34 votes.

Epistax is offline Epistax

Prince
of Bananas
May 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 20:26
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well in relation to the discussion over a quroum of the legislature (all of us) voting... our census right now is 53. Does this mean over half voted?

I don't see how we can establish a number of voters needed when the number we have is changing all the time.

Well there I go, this topic is now on 3 or 4 threads.

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
King
Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 21:00
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

35 votes in my election thread now.

What I suggest is use the census from the previous week. To be honest, I really don't care much either way about this minimum vote though.

Timeline is offline Timeline
King
Sunshine State, USA
Nov 2000
time: 00:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 21:02
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I don't even bother voting in the census anymore, I think alot of others don't too.

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
King
Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:21
  Old Post 24-07-2002 21:06
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Then the best solution would be just to drop the issue of a minimum vote as there is nothing else to base it on.

Captain is offline Captain
King
by Divine Right
May 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-07-2002 08:18
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

IIRC, in Phoenatica, they base it on some percentage of the # of participants in their most recent Presidential election. I'm not sure what that % is.

btw, I only have 45 votes or so in my nomination confirmation/approval poll.

Kramerman is offline Kramerman
Prince
UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
time: 23:21
  Old Post 25-07-2002 09:39
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

In the impeachment process amendment that is being worked on, on what we have so far, there is a poll where only the High court justices vote. Would this interfere with the 2nd clause of this ammendment? Im not going to vote for or against that clause, though i dont think my vote in that case would really matter.

Kman

civman, can you reall pass amendments by clauses like this? hmmmm, clever.

civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 25-07-2002 16:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It is not a poll. A poll is something made as a poll at apolyton using the forum feature, that will be an in-court vote without actually making a thread with a poll.

civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 25-07-2002 16:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Kman: I could have done the exact same thing by passing each independently with its own poll but I think this way is simplerand more efficient.

Sheik is offline Sheik
King

May 2002
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-07-2002 18:33
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

Should there be an amendment that says we have the right to not speak at a trial? Does the court have the right to question people and do we have to answer?

Epistax is offline Epistax

Prince
of Bananas
May 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-07-2002 19:56
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

I believe the court is only allowed to question the plainteff and defendent, and there's nothing stating either side has to answer. Of course not answering would be just about the worst thing to do for your case (getting caught in a lie would be about the only thing worse).

These aren't the opinions of the court, we haven't discussed this yet. Should the court be able to request someone's presence?

I don't think the court would refuse to hear from anyone, unless it became frivolous (many people making statements that don't matter, or used as a delay).

I'll look this up and may edit my post.

civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 26-07-2002 00:17
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

hmmm...when this was drafted the details of the court were still very far from being resolved, but a "Bill of Rights II" dealing with protecting defendants and with maybe a right or two I think of that needs including.

civman2000 is offline civman2000
Emperor
of the Martian Empire
Jun 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 26-07-2002 17:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

POLL CLOSED! All clauses except clause 7 passed. The following shall be added to the constitution:

Amendment IV: Bill of Rights

Clause 1: No person shall be denied the right to become a citizen of Apolytonia.

Clause 2: No citizen shall ever be denied the right to vote in any poll.

Clause 3: Free speech shall not be abridged unless it violates apolyton rules.

Clause 4: No one shall be banned permanently from participating in the democracy game, excluding those who are permanently banned from apolyton. Note that people may still be banned for any amount of time, as long as it is not permanent.

Clause 5: The right to associate into any form of organization shall not be denied.

Clause 6: No citizen may be punished in any way without due process of law.

Clause 7: The government may not knowingly hide information or give false information to the people.

  < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:21.
Apolyton Time is 00:21.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0791 seconds (76.23% PHP - 23.77% MySQL) with 35 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net