22-07-2002 04:33									#1
	Communism for gargantuan Empires. Any Civ3 Commie converts here? Support Apolyton

Politburo members speak out!

If you are lucky enough to create a massive empire that rivals the sweeping beauty and grandeur of the former U.S.S.R. Then in that case isn't communism the logical choice? Common sense would dictate that comunism is preferable science wise, production wise to any other form of Government wether you be at peace or war in this Instance (say 50+ cities on a standard map). I understand that 16 cities is the threshold for Empire Size corruption penalties. Provided the penalties scale as you get larger and larger it would seem at some point due to diminishing returns a flat level corruption is preferable..So Communism wins over even a Democracy or Republic which have a few great core cities but the rest of the empire floundering with 1 shield per city. Are thier any Civ 3 Commie converts out there?

If it doesn't work this way, whats the point? Of even having this govt in the game? Discuss.

Last edited by Artifex on 22-07-2002 at 04:39

	22-07-2002 05:59									#2
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Yes, I prefer it overall. Good ammount of free units, and add the fact that spies are veteran, it is bliss.

Using the WW2 Mod, I always start off with Communism, and leave it be. Once I've built a good ammount of cities and risen them up to high production status, I pump out units, and take over the neighboring nations.

I usually then keep peace once I've taken a continent. I also raise the luxury slaider to 70% which usually keeps most of the citizens happy. From then on, I just build the UN, and win by diplomatic.

	22-07-2002 06:04									#3
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hmm; I see Marc gave in on the USSR flag

	22-07-2002 06:06									#4
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alva, that's the Chinese flag. Seems like the best alternative

	22-07-2002 06:07									#5
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It seems Communism gets a bum rap around here. As I was thinking if you have a Huge Empire a flat corruption rate with 50 big cities would outproduce a few great core cities and 20-30 wasted cities. I dunno I could be wrong, but in theory I think that is the way it should work.

	22-07-2002 06:07									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Propaganda Yes, I prefer [Communism] overall. Good ammount of free units, and add the fact that spies are veteran, it is bliss.

We're talking CivIII here, right? What do you mean the spies are veteran.?

	22-07-2002 06:17									#7
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I don't have a problem with it. Corruption is minimal in most of my games, because I set priority to Temples, Police Stations and Courthouses. I also keep the luxury slider above 10%; that somewhat limits the impact from corruption, it seems to me.

When I play, I usually have about 50+ cities producing units in 3 turns or less. I can take a couple civs on at once, and take them over in 10-20 turns.

	22-07-2002 06:19									#8
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quote: Originally posted by RedBird We're talking CivIII here, right? What do you mean the spies are veteran.?

RedBird, it means they have a higher success rate. And yes, I'm talking about Civ III.

	22-07-2002 06:20									#9
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Check the editor to see what I'm talking about.

	22-07-2002 06:47									#10
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Under Communism, the forbidden palace and the palace are irrelevent since all cities have a flat corruption rate, correct? So these can be sold off?

	22-07-2002 06:50									#11
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I think if the Palace is built, it stamps the fact that the city it was built in is the capital. I think it also decreases corruption.

EDIT: I'm not sure it's across the board, or beneficial to all cities. I think it only affects the city it was built in, however.

	22-07-2002 07:25									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Propaganda alva, that's the Chinese flag. Seems like the best alternative

oops, eugh, well: blush: just , well,
i'll be more carefull next time.

	22-07-2002 09:28									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Propaganda RedBird, it means they have a higher success rate.

Yeah, I just logged on because I just found that in the editor. And I'd forgotten that sometimes espionage fails so it makes sense. I see.

	22-07-2002 13:52									#14
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propaganda-

what's your favorite civ for communism?

	22-07-2002 15:30									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

Communism just doesn't work well in very large Empires. You need equal improvements in all your cities for it to work right, which costs a lot more to build and maintain than consolidating your production and commerce in 'core' cities under the other governments. The commerce bonus isn't there, and the higher the number of cities, the worse things get.

Under certain circumstances Communism can beat out Monarchy as best wartime Government. Mostly a very spread out empire with few cities, all equally developed. Otherwise it's seriously lacking.

	22-07-2002 15:54									#16
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Then Communism is broke. I suggest replacing it with a useful government. A better version of monarchy since it is discovered in the industial era. Perhaps Fascism? Get a powerful military unit with it as well perhaps. Better tanks and a Brownshirt unit..

	22-07-2002 16:20									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Artifex Under Communism, the forbidden palace and the palace are irrelevent since all cities have a flat corruption rate, correct? So these can be sold off?

In fact, with 1.29f patch Forbidden Palace DOUBLES number of optimal cities in Communism.

	22-07-2002 16:41									#18
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i go through a peacful stage in republic, then once the wars begin to come around i wait till WW is real bad then change to comunism.

	22-07-2002 17:42									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Communism just doesn't work well in very large Empires. You need equal improvements in all your cities for it to work right, which costs a lot more to build and maintain than consolidating your production and commerce in 'core' cities under the other governments. The commerce bonus isn't there, and the higher the number of cities, the worse things get. Under certain circumstances Communism can beat out Monarchy as best wartime Government. Mostly a very spread out empire with few cities, all equally developed. Otherwise it's seriously lacking.

That is my experience also. My latest game was archipelago-emperor-egyptian, and I found Communism very useful during wartime. My cities were mostly fully-developed after large investments from the treasury. I would switch between democracy and communism, depending on the war situation. On the other hand, this is the first time communism has worked well for me.

You can find the game here:
** WARNING ** SPOILER ** GOTM9 **

http://www.zachriel.com/gotm9/

	22-07-2002 21:03									#20
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Zachriel, What do you have on the http://www.zachriel.com besides Civ3 strategies and GOTMs?

	22-07-2002 21:20									#21
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Hmm... I'm reluctant to switch to commie when my empire grows very large. Under a representative gov't, my core 15 or 20 cities will outproduce what the whole empire would under commie. With universities and hydro plants, it'd be a shame to send hundreds of shields and arrows into the dumpster so that I can make up some of that in peripheral, smaller, less-improved cities. I'll take my core cash cow.

Having to set luxuries at 70% to keep people celebrating doesn't strike me as an effective use of arrows, either...

	22-07-2002 23:26									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Zachriel, What do you have on the http://www.zachriel.com besides Civ3 strategies and GOTMs?

All Civ, all the time.
http://www.zachriel.com/gotm.htm

	23-07-2002 03:18									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

To Artiflex, I always play as Russia/Soviet Union.

To everyone else, if you're commercial, enjoy raking in loads of gold, and like to have a minimal tech lead, then Democracy, Republic and even Monarchy are for you.

I personally prefer to build infastructure, and secure the well-being of the people. I don't play to by any rules, per se. I just play to have fun and make a use of my imagination.

If time calls for war, then I can easily respond. With 30-40 cities built-up, I have no problem supplying my empire with defense/offensive units.