24-07-2002 23:28									#31
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ooooh.... I got an extremely high rating on the Channel4 test too....

Oh well. Gotta go get my tips frosted and buy this delightful new designer coffee!

	24-07-2002 23:42									#33
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Oh by the way, I knew I'd be going too far when I was considering getting blonde highlights That would just be flagrant advertising.

	24-07-2002 23:43									#34
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* Asher just got blonde highlights in again.

Actually it's not so much a "gay" thing anymore, tons of guys have them here (straight or gay).

	24-07-2002 23:47									#35
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Once again, the straights follow our lead. What sheep...

	24-07-2002 23:48									#36
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Not so over here in Britain. For a while I was tempted...but I would just look SO stupid. Even more so.

	25-07-2002 00:07									#37
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Lorizael,

I suggest talking with somebody supportive and be decisive about it.

I, was probably one of the most confused individuals from some time and am still questioning myself... my social life is okay but my social skills are shot to ****... I am a short-fused and sometimes dictator-like after being corrupted absolutely by a game called Tropico when being given a position of power. I had a girlfriend like six months ago but my sexuality was in question was quite some time and sometimes it still is, I usually think about girls though...

Enough of my own personal crap and I will suggest this: I would suggest talking to somebody supportive and accepting. Even if you are not gay or bi, you might be confused and a person like this can help you out if you are overwhelmed.

TheSpark by the way said I was 10% gay... but I sometimes question myself.... hmm....

	25-07-2002 00:10									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Once again, the straights follow our lead. What sheep...

And it's sooooo true.

	25-07-2002 00:20									#39
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With women, I've noticed a bit of a trend. I've a few friends who start out straight- then after a few typically crap early relationships they go lesbian. Then, at about 30 when the hormones start screaming they go straight again and have a family.

That leaves me wondering if bisexuality goes in phases. Maybe in 10-15 years time I'll see them go lesbian again.

	25-07-2002 00:52									#40
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RJ - That seems actually not too uncommon with lesbians.

	25-07-2002 01:10									#41
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are they really lesbians (I mean on a deeper level, not the surface level)?

Jon Miller

	25-07-2002 01:16									#42
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Depends on how you define "lesbian."

	25-07-2002 01:26									#43
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one based upon actions (whatever you are doing at the time, purely practical)

the other based upon internal self-identity/genetics

I was refering to the second (hopefully yuo understand me, I did not go into detail on my definitions)

Jon Miller

	25-07-2002 01:30									#44
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Hard to say. Sexuality isn't a concrete issue, it's pretty nebulous. Perhaps more so for women than men, too.

	25-07-2002 01:32									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Perhaps more so for women than men, too.

I don't really think so

I think that environment just does a better job of screwing up women's sexual identity than it does men's (or it appears that way, I now figure that men are generally much more confused about their sexual identity than they usually let on)

Jon Miller

	25-07-2002 01:37									#46
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Well, based on the studies that showed gay men actually have a physical difference in the brain than heterosexual men, whereas there is no difference between gay and straight women, I would wonder if the issue wasn't more genetic/biological for men and more environmental for women.

Certainly men experience sexual confusion, but I don't think they often go through actual fluctuations in orientations like many women seem to. It may have a lot to do with women being more accepted as nurturing, emotional types, but I don't know if environment can adequately explain the difference.

	25-07-2002 01:40									#47
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The labels of "heterosexual," "homosexual," etc are modern and not very important. To some extent everybody is wired both ways, and there's probably a nice dual bell curve around the 75/25 marks for each gender, independent of cultural concerns.

Don't worry about it. Outside of the public, political arena, only insane people give a crap what you do with your our personal privates. To 'im, lad...

	25-07-2002 01:46									#48
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it does not make a lot of sense for it to be genetic only in men

Women face society trying to change their sexuality so much more than men

everyone woman I know who is decently young (or is active on the dating field) has had her sexuality repeatedly and explicitly challenged. Many constantly get asked by boyfreinds, husbands, and lovers to engage in lesbian. Popular culture also uplifts lesbianism.

I am sure you have faced, being a gay male, society constantly trying to force you into a male heterosexual identity. Women get pulled to ways in modern society, towards lesbianism and towards heterosexuality. It is no wonder to me that many seem to be confused.

Jon Miller

	25-07-2002 10:27									#49
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I just want you all to know that I'm not worried about not being straight. I don't think it's a bad thing if I'm bi (actually a bit exciting). Thanks for all of the support here. And I'm pretty sure at this point that I'm not straight. At the mall today and... well I'm guessing none of you care about the hot guys I saw.

Guess I'll have to go find those ignorant people and tell them that I am offended!

And it is true that no where in our society (except of course for the gay community) is homosexuality among males supported. It is at best tolerated. Whereas this is different for lesbianism.

The problem for men (and women too) is that the day you are born, everyone assumes you are straight. And you are treated as such throughout all of your childhood and teenage years. Because of this, it can be quite difficult when you realize that your sexuality is not what you thought it was. All your life, you've only known straight people. I wonder if it helps to have gay relatives when growing up.

	25-07-2002 23:00									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I don't really think so I think that environment just does a better job of screwing up women's sexual identity than it does men's (or it appears that way, I now figure that men are generally much more confused about their sexual identity than they usually let on) Jon Miller

My sexual orientation is not "screwed up" because I'm gay. It's normal for me to be gay.

	25-07-2002 23:05									#51
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun My sexual orientation is not "screwed up" because I'm gay. It's normal for me to be gay.

I did not say so

Jon Miller

	26-07-2002 06:58									#52
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Just don't go looking for your older brother's handgun when you realize you're gay, like I did. I'm glad the gun case was empty.

I know what you mean! My brother's gun case was always empty when I wanted it to be full, yet it was always full when I really really wanted it to be empty!

	26-07-2002 08:31									#53
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myself, I started out thinking that I was straight-- even though I was messing around with the boy next door throughout my childhood. Then, in middle school, I finally came out to myself. However, I didn't really stop being ashamed until I decided f--- the world, I'm pretty damn cool anyway. It's a cliche, but it works.
I say, good for you, lorizael, that you are mature enough not to be freaked out by this... development. I had an ex who came to date me through the same process of discovering something they had never considered before-- and he is very well adjusted with his sexuality. I foresee some happy relationships in your future.

	26-07-2002 08:36									#54
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Wohoo, someone sees something good in my future!

	26-07-2002 08:39									#55
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My five cents...

It's still a struggle for me to decide how I should define my own sexual personality. Heterosexual with sexual gay relationships or bisexual. And let's just say it's really not something you can make up your mind easily on, or at least after months I still haven't done my "final" decision, but AFAIK I'm currently seeing myself as straigth. So Lorizael, just don't push too much, or the decision will be bad. You can always use your own mind as a test platform, before you tell anyhting to friends/family/etc.

	26-07-2002 08:42									#56
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I've just come out to you all now. This has been on my mind for many months. And I'm never going to make a final decision really. If I find me a good man, then I'll go and be with a good man. And if I find me a good woman, I'll go and be with a good woman.

	26-07-2002 08:44									#57
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So are you now seeing yourself as bi-sexual?

	26-07-2002 08:50									#58
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In a perfect world, one should not consider oneself straight until one has had a romantic relationship with one of the opposite sex (and enjoyed being with said person) and a relationship with one of the same sex (and not enjoyed being with said person).

But we do not live in a perfect world. So it was assumed I was straight the moment I was born. I found out that I was attracted to women. I did not find out that I was not attracted to men. So I cannot really know that I am not entirely straight until I have a relationship with a man and enjoy being with the man.

But I think that there is the distinct possibility that I might in fact enjoy such a relationship. So sure, why not, yah, I'm bi.

I'm not sure what possessed me to speak the way I just did. Or maybe it only sounds odd in my head. Hmm.

	26-07-2002 18:24									#59
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Then this is one flawed world...

It might be hard for you... as I know, since I am still confused and even moreso then a bat flying during day. I hope you find somebody...

	26-07-2002 18:30									#60
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This thread makes me all, what's the term...faklempt?

Just reminds me of my own period of agonizing over it and finally coming to accept things as they were. Very emotional stuff...