23-07-2002 14:39									#1
	Refusing gifts? Increase the size of your Attachments

I offered Egypt 20 gpt "aid package" and they say "Why do you waste Egypt's time with such a one-sided deal?"

What's so one-sided about that, other than it's in your favour?

Happens to others as well?

	23-07-2002 14:42									#2
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I have tech deals good to go with another civ. To be nice I add in SIX free resources as a BONUS.

The AI then insults me and cancels the entire deal. Stupid AI.

Did Firaxis fix this with 1.29? Not a chance.

	23-07-2002 17:14									#3
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I've offered the AI unwanted isolated cities numerous times only to have them refuse. Upon closer examination I determined their refusals were based on the fact that they had no resources, gold, or techs to offer in trade.

Perhaps the reason why the AI refuses offers, even ones in THEIR favour, is because the AI is programmed not to trade if it has nothing to offer in return. Just a thought, but the next time you offer a deal see if the AI has anything that they can offer in return. I suspect that's why you get denied so often.

	23-07-2002 19:39									#4
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I think he was referring to a 'gift', asking for nothing in exchange.

	23-07-2002 19:42									#5
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That happened to me once, with the Zulu. I offered tham 25 gold, just out of the blue in order to be a nice guy, and he refused it. I couldn't believe it!

	23-07-2002 21:38									#6
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Out of curosity your income was more than 20 gpt right? I know the ai will refuse any deal which it thinks you can't pay even if you have a large enough treasury to finance it for the whole 20 turns. If thats not it, I dont know Ive never seen them refuse a gift other than that.

	23-07-2002 21:45									#7
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I know that the AI will not accept any "per turn" deals (gold, resources, etc.) if they don't like you. Even if you're giving it away, they won't take it because they don't trust you.

I've never seen an AI player refuse a lump sum gift or a tech if I offer it to them.

	23-07-2002 21:55									#8
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This has been discussed in threads before, but if you have a bad credit rating, then the AI won't accept gifts from you. Which kinda makes it hard to recover your credit, but that's how it works.

	23-07-2002 22:03									#9
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Well it happened to me. We were on polite terms, our borders weren't in conflict and I was ahead in all areas.

I have this random act of kindness approach when it comes to my diplomacy. Every so often, I'll just outright give 25-50 gold to someone it might be in my interests to please. Quite often, it will make a big difference in their relations to me, and almost always I find myself with a lot more money than they do. But on this occasion, the Zulu turned me down flat.

	23-07-2002 22:44									#10
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"Hey, Cleo, I'd like to give you 20 gold per turn".
"I don't want anything from you"
"But, Cleo, I'm giving this money to you. It's a gift!"
"I said that I don't want anything from you!"
"Why, Cleo?"
"If I accepted this gift, I'd be in debt with you, and I would never be able to attack you viciously like I'm planning to do in the next 10 turns"
"Geez, Cleo, now I know why you're an AI in this game..."

	23-07-2002 22:49									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Alexnm "Hey, Cleo, I'd like to give you 20 gold per turn". "I don't want anything from you" "But, Cleo, I'm giving this money to you. It's a gift!" "I said that I don't want anything from you!" "Why, Cleo?" "If I accepted this gift, I'd be in debt with you, and I would never be able to attack you viciously like I'm planning to do in the next 10 turns" "Geez, Cleo, now I know why you're an AI in this game..."

	23-07-2002 22:51									#12
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Iskandar, that's a really cute avatar you've got! Is the kitten yours?

As for refusing gifts - which difficulty level are you guys referring to, because I play exclusively at prince and have never had a gift refused, even by my most hated enemies.

	23-07-2002 23:14									#13
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the AI is wary of GPT offers in general. you could give them 2 GPT ad ask them fro 1 GPT and they'll be insulted.

i think it's a built in feature to deter abuse somehow...

ask soren

	23-07-2002 23:14									#14
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I always play at Regent.

	23-07-2002 23:46									#15
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I play as Warlord and the AI never accepted a city as a gift.

	24-07-2002 03:09									#16
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They probably think it'll switch back to you.

	24-07-2002 04:05									#17
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Basically it isn't polite to attack someone straight after they give you a gift. So if the civ in question intends to attack you in the near future, they may refuse the gift to avoid getting a reputation of first taking your lunch money, then beating you up anyway.

The other reason, is say a civ gives you an offer you cant refuse (i dunno, several luxuries, some gpt) but you really want to attack them. By accepting the gift you are then inclined to wait out the 20 turns before attacking, when the decision to attack would have been made much easier by not accepting the gift.

A third reason is refusing a gift out of pity or kindness. Basically "keep your money, you need it more than me.".

Ofcourse the AI also refuses gifts for no rational reason at all. (for example, when you sweeten a deal they would have accepted, then they refuse, or your offloading things you have no use for, but they do)

	24-07-2002 09:18									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Blake Basically it isn't polite to attack someone straight after they give you a gift. So if the civ in question intends to attack you in the near future, they may refuse the gift to avoid getting a reputation of first taking your lunch money, then beating you up anyway.

This is a very real possibilty. Egypt has slowly rised to become the next superpower after me. I slowed down my military buildup after my conquest of the continent I'm on.

	24-07-2002 16:42									#19
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Cool. Then my dialogue above is right on the mark.

	24-07-2002 20:29									#20
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Try to "buy" one of their gold for 20 of yours. The AI warms to favorable deals.

	24-07-2002 21:39									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Blake Basically it isn't polite to attack someone straight after they give you a gift. So if the civ in question intends to attack you in the near future, they may refuse the gift to avoid getting a reputation of first taking your lunch money, then beating you up anyway.

No, the AI has too rudimentary an understanding of the reputations system for this to be a plausible reason, as evidenced by its frequent betrayals in terms of military alliances and RoP treaties. And beyond that, there's no evidence that I've ever heard that accepting a gift from a civ and then attacking them puts a black mark on your rep. AFAIK, it doesn't, so the AI would have absolutely no reason to turn down the deal, unless you take into account the fact that it's insane. On the main subject of the thread, I have indeed seen the AI go from "Close to a deal" to "Insulted by" when I add on something, usually an isolated city. It makes very little sense, except that perhaps the AI thinks that whenever a human offers a city, they're going to be able to culture flip it back.

	24-07-2002 21:55									#22
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The Civ3 development team re-worked the diplomacy a few patches ago in an effort to put an end to certain exploits.
One, is the request for gold per turn. In the earliest iterations of the game, you could demand that the computer give some ungodly sum of gold per turn and they'd mysteriously pay it. Firaxis 'fixed' this by not allowing the AI or yourself promise more gold than you could afford at the moment. In all of this somehow, the AI took a negative stance at giving gpt in exchange for something. If you're vastly superior to an enemy and you attempt to propose to give a resource for even 1 gpt, the AI will be ''insulted". If you *demand* that same money, the AI will fold like a houseof cards. The AI will often propose a gpt deal, but will almost never accept one proposed by you.

Another such instance is the 'selling' of a city. Prior to a couple patches ago, an exploit existed wherein you could build a useless city in barren tundra, sell it to an AI for an ungodly price, retake it, and repeat the process. Again, Firaxis 'fixed' the problem, by prohibiting you from selling even a poor, fringe city. You can *give* it away, but they won't ever buy it for even 1 gold.

	24-07-2002 22:01									#23
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Mach: thanks for the info, it is certainly useful.

	24-07-2002 22:17									#24
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Angry Zulu citizen: "My credit card bills were OUTRAGEOUS! But then I called Ameridebt and they got my monthly payments cut almost in half!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist

	25-07-2002 02:25									#25
	Re: Refusing gifts? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Reputation means everything. Just like in the real world, you probably refuse to accept blood money paying in installment from a drug dealer or a bank robber.

	25-07-2002 08:09									#26
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quote: Originally posted by N. Machiavelli The AI will often propose a gpt deal, but will almost never accept one proposed by you.

I give 20 gpt to everyone else on the map (got too much money, +1200 per turn) as an "aid package" more or less to make them dependant on me and therefore think twice before declaring war.

Everyone accepts it except for stubborn Cleo.

	25-07-2002 22:11									#27
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Oh, they'll always accept gifts. But now try offering that for their world map.