24-07-2002 05:30									#1
	A neat Idea for mounted units, possibly for Civ4 Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've been thinking about this ever since I sat down the other day and watched the movie Gladiator.

I was looking at the opening battle scene, and when I saw Maximus and his men riding down on horses, I said to myself, the Civ3 horsemen didn't really look like that?

So I came up with a neat idea.

Keeping with what we know about Civ3, remove all horse units, and replace them a single cheap horse. Horseman would be a regular horse, chivalry would be an armored horse, and military tradition would be a controlled breeded horse.

Then you need another non horse, non wheel unit and "load" it on the horse. So, for example, you build a regular horse, then a swordsman and mount the swordsman on the horse, now the unit has the same attack/defense number as a swordsman, but the horse adds 1 movement point, so the swordsman can move two spaces instead of one. Armored horse would add 2, and breeded horse would add 3.

Horses that have no unit on it can be captured. Once a unit is on a horse, the unit can’t unload nor upgrade. Horses can never upgrade.

I'm guessing this would be pretty unbalanced, but I want to know what everyone (those who catch my idea) thinks.

	24-07-2002 07:26									#2
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Nice idea, but the lack of upgrades isn't a great selling point. Also sounds a bit to much like armies to me.

	24-07-2002 07:56									#3
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Hmmm... well, really if you think about it, this applies to any unit in the game. The only think that separates anything from a Warrior to a Marine is the equipment they carry. So really, shouldn't the people stay the same and only the equipment be upgraded? Just a thought.

	24-07-2002 08:05									#4
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Ever heard of Unit Design Workshop from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri? That's basically the same idea.

	24-07-2002 08:26									#5
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Well, when you consider the innovations that civilizations have created to fight wars since ancient times that were entirely unique to them (and I don't just mean unique units) it does give some credance to a Unit Workshop. Often times, its when a general says "hey, let's try it this way." that a turning point is formed.

	24-07-2002 23:30									#6
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Thrawn,

I like your idea of having 'blank' horses that you can 'load' regular units onto to give them more movement. They should probably also get a little better attack also--from the added movement.

I don't like the idea of not being able to upgrade the units. Other than the no upgrade aspect, your idea rocks.

	25-07-2002 04:12									#7
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I did not allow horses and units be upgraded, only to get the game balanced, since I felt that people running around with Warriors on a horse suddenly becoming an Immortal on a horse would really unbalance the game. But if people would like to upgrade then sure, I just tried to give some negative effects just to keep the game balanced in my mind's eye.

quote: Ever heard of Unit Design Workshop from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri? That's basically the same idea.

Heard of Alpha Centauri, never played it, so that comment is void.

	25-07-2002 04:28									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

About upgrading.

I see your point--now. I was not thinking of upgrading, say, a mounted warrior to a mounted swordsman, rather upgrading a mounted warrior to Knight or the next higher mounted unit.

I agree that being able to upgrade a warrior to a swordsman whilst mounted would be a bit unfair if not impractical.

BTW: I'm using 'mounted warrior' in the sense that Trawn came up w/-- a warrior unit upon a horse, not to be confused w/ the Iroquios UU.

	25-07-2002 06:01									#9
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Cool idea, but one problem. Wouldn't it be kind of stupid to have marines or infantry on a horse when by that time mounted units were obsolete?

	26-07-2002 04:24									#10
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod Cool idea, but one problem. Wouldn't it be kind of stupid to have marines or infantry on a horse when by that time mounted units were obsolete?

That is why I made this thread, to get the kinks out. Although I agree marines shouldn't be on a horse, but infantry perhaps. Thanks for the enlightment.

	26-07-2002 08:04									#11
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By the time you get to marines Infantry you could put them on APC'sin stead of horses, I would imagine.

This reminds me a bit of the colonisation unit system. You give a unit 50 muskets and they become a soldier. Give them 50 horses and they become scouts. Give them both and they become dragoons. There was really only one unit type, but with muskets and horses, as well as the ability to upgrade them (from regular to veteran to continental) you ended up with 7 different units.

It could potentially go well with a remodeled economic system, the colonisation economic model was very deep as trading was the backbone of the game.

But I do like the idea.

	26-07-2002 09:14									#12
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Perhaps to help alleviate the upgrade problem, newly upgraded units would always have to re-start at regular. Plus, putting them on horseback would count as an upgrade... representing new training, etc.

	26-07-2002 15:10									#13
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A Civ unit workshop would be cool, I think. Here are some ideas for parts:

Chassis:

1) Garrison Unit (move zero--cannot leave the city where it is produced except via Airlift or Naval Transport, but gets 25% bonus to defense power--available with Masonry to represent fortifications)

2) Foot unit (move 1--always available)

3) Mounted unit (move 2--requires Horseback Riding)

4) Mechanized unit (move 3, blitz--requires Motorized Transport)

5) Coptor unit (move 4, ignore terrain costs, but gains no benefit from roads/railroads, blitz--requires Advanced Flight)

Armor:

1) No Armor (defense 1--available always)

2) Leather Armor (defense 2--requires Warrior Code)

3) Mail Armor (defense 3--requires Iron Working + Iron)

3B) Bronze Plate Armor (defense 4, requires no iron, but costs twice as much as Suit Armor)

4) Suit Armor (defense 4--requires Chivalry + Iron)

5) Iron Plate Armor (defense 6--requires Metallurgy + Iron, cannot be used on Mounted units)

6) Steel Plate Armor (defense 8--requires Steel--cannot be used on Mounted units)

7) Kevlar Armor (defense 12-requires Synthetic Fibers)

Weapons:

1) Stone Spear (attack 1--available always)

2) Bronze Spear (attack 2--available with Bronze Working)

3) Iron Spear (attack 3--available with Iron Working)

4) Iron Sword (attack 4--available with Feudalism)

5) Smoothbore gun [aka musket/cannon] (attack 6--available with Military Tradition)

6) Rifled gun (attack 8--available with Replacable Parts)

7) Machinegun (attack 10--available with Mass Production)

8) Rocket Launcher (attack 14--available with Rocketry)

9) Laser (attack 18--available with The Laser)