28-07-2002 11:18									#211
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Ravagon, KH (er, Froggums, er, Frogger), Ethelred:

Thumbs up for expanding on my thoughts regarding antipodal effects of a meteor impact. Curiosity leads me to wonder: Do we know the impact site of the Permian asteroid? Would we be able to track it down using the Siberian Traps? Or would all evidence be completely gone by now?

A slight aside as well: What sort of volcanism causes these traps that are in India and Siberia? Tectonic collisions/rubbing? Are these ancient traps similar to the massive basaltic flows found in parts of the northwest part of North America and current activity in Iceland?

Gatekeeper

	28-07-2002 11:20									#212
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I never made such a claim. I was responding to Dolphin's statement that the Apollo programme was an unwarranted scientific expense. I said that nothing spent was wasted. And this is true. I am not making any judgement on what the optimum use of funding, public or private, might be beyond my belief that spending directed towards the goal of getting mankind off the Earth is worthwhile.

Even if we fail in that goal we still reap the economic benefit of employing people.

	28-07-2002 11:21									#213
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I'm out of my league. Know basically nothing about geophysics stuff...

EDIT: jimmy, threadjack terminated, if you agree

Last edited by KrazyHorse on 28-07-2002 at 11:26

	28-07-2002 11:26									#214
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Frogger:

Perhaps, but isn't it amazing what one can learn via TLC, Discovery, The History Channel, PBS and various magazines, newspapers and other TV programs (and on the Internet)?

Gatekeeper

	28-07-2002 11:27									#215
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I thought jimmytrick had taken his leave of 'Poly?

	28-07-2002 11:28									#216
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So did I...

	28-07-2002 12:59									#217
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Isn't it better if it hit the Himalayas or in Siberia, so that we woun't see tsunamis? Both areas are pretty empty, and can't be used productively. But how much will a crash in the Himalayas or Siberia do to the rest of Asia?

	28-07-2002 13:55									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Do we know the impact site of the Permian asteroid?

No, not yet anyway. There may not even be one. Its a guess at present. Without the Chixalub evidence for the KT event I doubt anyone would be thinking seriously of an impact causing the Permian extinction. Geologists and paleontolagists always tended to look for Earthly causes not astronomical ones. Last I saw Bob Bakker still thought that disease did in the dinosaurs. Maybe he has changed his mind in the last few years.

quote: Would we be able to track it down using the Siberian Traps? Or would all evidence be completely gone by now?

Well if that one site has it right then the Siberian Traps IS the impact site on the surface and the Haiwain hot spot is the impact site in the mantle.

I suppose if someone can figure out what was 180 degrees to the Siberian Traps 250 million years ago then it might be possible to look for a impact site. It could have been in the ocean and already subducted though.

quote: A slight aside as well: What sort of volcanism causes these traps that are in India and Siberia? Tectonic collisions/rubbing?

They are called hot spots. Haiwai and Yellowstone are two that come to mind. Any major archipelego was created by one. New Zealand, Japan, Iceland. Lots of smaller ones.

They are thought to be plumes of extra hot material coming up of the bottom of the mantle or even lower. They have a large amount of mass and its hot enough to melt its way to the surface. The plates move over the top of the hot spot and the hot spot burns through it. It is not thought that the hot spot itself is moveing from what I have read.

For instance the Yellowstone hot spot can be tracked accross part of the US back to Southern Idaho. Its headed for Canada. Be ready Frogger it will get you in a mere 20 million years. Most likely get us in the US first. That thing is nasty when it gets going. A huge section of the the US will have to be evacuated should erupt again and there is no reason to suppose it won't. It doesn't appear to be as gentle as Hawai.

Considering that it erupted 2.0, 1.3, and 0.6 million years ago its not exactly something that happens often but then again thats about .65 millions years on the average. We are due for another for another kinda soon in geological terms. Maybe even in historical terms.

quote: Are these ancient traps similar to the massive basaltic flows found in parts of the northwest part of North America and current activity in Iceland? Gatekeeper

Yes. At least in the general resulting geological effects. Although the Deccan and Siberian Traps do appear to be the most extensive ever. The Siberian Traps must be pretty extreme for anyone to have noticed them in that wilderness after a quarter billion years of intervening geology.

Don't we have any geologists on Apolyton? I feel so naked streaming out all this stuff that I barely comprehend. Not quite as naked as I do when I try to discuss physics though. I caught myself saying something wrong in this post before I submited it. Who knows what is going to get through anyway.

	28-07-2002 15:43									#219
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred OK its not 200 feet. Its 180 feet.

I was tripping last night, I thought you said 300 ft, just rechecked you did say 200ft.

I still can't see an asteroid melting all that ice, even if it hit a fault line/volcano. The continent is larger than Europe and for all areas to be effected to the point of melting by the heat from an impact and the geological activity would be unlikely.

	28-07-2002 16:16									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin I was tripping last night, I thought you said 300 ft, just rechecked you did say 200ft. I still can't see an asteroid melting all that ice, even if it hit a fault line/volcano. The continent is larger than Europe and for all areas to be effected to the point of melting by the heat from an impact and the geological activity would be unlikely.

Well this one is relatively small and slow in comparison the monster that ended the dinosaurs. The only way I can see it doing in the majority of the ice cap is by releasing green house gases.

I suppose it could dislodge some glaciers though. Might raise the water levels enough to bother places that are allready dangerously low. If it doesn't hit limestone I suppose that Antartica would be a pretty good target.

	30-07-2002 20:43									#221
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Just to allay any fears

	30-07-2002 21:24									#222
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DAMN!

There I was hoping it was on a collision course with the US!

Oh well, back to the drawing board...

	30-07-2002 22:46									#223
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How disappointing. Nothing cool ever happens on this boring planet.

	31-07-2002 03:55									#224
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quote: Nothing cool ever happens on this boring planet.

Wait a while. Ice ages happen fairly often.


Of course thats in geological terms so I guess you may have to wait quite a while. The Little Ice Age wasn't all that long ago though. For all the talk about global warming the world still isn't as warm as it was before that. People used to grow wine grapes in Britain for instance.

	31-07-2002 04:50									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Don't we have any geologists on Apolyton? I feel so naked streaming out all this stuff that I barely comprehend. Not quite as naked as I do when I try to discuss physics though. I caught myself saying something wrong in this post before I submited it.

Yeah, sure, Ethel! We all know that you know everything

	31-07-2002 05:49									#226
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Mars Colonies have got to be the most retarded Idea out there. It would take 100,000 years to terraform the planet. The colonies wouldnt survive that long anyway. What we need is the wormhole probe and Egaltarian act.

	31-07-2002 06:39									#227
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Why terraform? Why waste time and resources creating an environment you would then have to waste time and resources maintaining?

Domes are much safer. And comfy.

	31-07-2002 06:41									#228
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Domes would be too popular a target for vandals with spraypaint.

	31-07-2002 08:49									#229
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Mars Colonies have got to be the most retarded Idea out there. It would take 100,000 years to terraform the planet. The colonies wouldnt survive that long anyway. What we need is the wormhole probe and Egaltarian act.

Faded, you've been playing Call To Power too long!!

Yes, i agree. Domes cost 10,000 production to build, when terraforming only costs 1000 public works!!

You're much funnier when you're pissed

	31-07-2002 17:24									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred People used to grow wine grapes in Britain for instance.

They still do, and as more than just a novelty.