28-07-2002 10:37									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus I've had planty of success with the GL on Monarch with early literature and a decent pre-build - set the science to 0% and get rich while the AI researches maybe 10 techs or so for you. OTOH, if LIteracy is late, the AI does sometimes finish it post-astronomy .

I've done it too (though not had "plenty of success") - but I think it's a pretty risky strategy. Should you be surprised to find you're on a pangea and the tech rate zooms forward more quickly than expected, you can suddenly find yourself completing the GL while the AIs are researching Navigation (at least, on 1.21f ).

	29-07-2002 22:06									#32
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Cort Haus,

Heh, my reputation is truely atrocious, since I blatantly attacked three different civs (Egypt, Japan, Zulu). The result is that I cannot buy anything for GPT, and I cannot sell anything a large lump sum. Clearly, I cannot get a RoP either. I have sold luxuries for GPT and tech for GPT plus some lump sum. I do, in fact, have access to all 8 luxuries (though I think I *may* be importing one), so good relations are a non-issue for me. I can win the game right now, if I was willing to throw all my Cavalry at England (the AI *just* discovered nationalism). Hmm...

Catt,

Your experiences mirror mine. Pangea on 1.21 would NEVER have shaken out the way our games did. That's a guaranteed tech blitz - the GL would be obselete faster than you could say "Education." Not so with 1.29. I like it

-Arrian

	30-07-2002 08:38									#33
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm close to finishing a monarch-level 1.29 game as the Germans and am kicking ass thouroughly on a large map with 12 civs. I disabled all victories except the conquest ones, so I will have to strive to take 3/4 of the globe soon and get domination.

I didn't notice any appreciable slowing of the tech race for me, but the AI seemed to advance more slowly. Overall, it's been pretty fun, though.

	30-07-2002 19:31									#35
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I can finally answer "yes" to the question. Game over. "You have acheived a domination victory!" I bumrushed England with my Cavalry... poor slobs, they never stood a chance. Artillery, Infantry & Cavalry against an assortment of riflemen, muskets, pikes, spears and knights. Final score in the mid-4000s. I'll say this: a large, democratic Rome is a VERY rich Rome. I was rolling in cash ("treasure bath!" - History of the World, Part I).

An interesting sidenote that I forgot to mention about this game: the Iroquois rushed Bach's with a leader. I watched him be created, moved, and immediately there was a popup "the Iroquois have completed JS Bachs." I'm 99% sure they were no where near finishing it by conventional means. Plus, I never saw an Iroquois army, despite them being at war for a while after this. So a good move by the AI there.

-Arrian

	30-07-2002 19:38									#36
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I finished my first game with 1.29f this past weekend with a domination win. Played regent/standard/med continents and got pangaea. Tech race was much easier for me than in 1.27f. It also helped to beat tech out of my neighbors. By the end of the game I had MI and everyone else had only infantry. Wiped all of them out without pity. Didn't matter that I couldn't trade with anyone because I had all the resources and luxuries I needed to wage indefinate war under republic.

I think I'll try moving up to monarch soon. But I've put civ3 down for a while to warm up for the CtP2 tourney here at 'Poly.

	30-07-2002 20:00									#37
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Hmm, that's another "I selected continents and got a pangea" comment. Did Firaxis tweak the map generation and inadvertantly screw it up?

-Arrian

	30-07-2002 20:59									#38
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Arrian Hmm, that's another "I selected continents and got a pangea" comment. Did Firaxis tweak the map generation and inadvertantly screw it up? -Arrian

Don't know, but happens all the time. I *especially* like to sit on a small continent all by myself when I selected pangea...

	30-07-2002 21:40									#39
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I hasn't happened to me much. I normally select continents. Maybe once before this had I not gotten continents. *shrug*

-Arrian

	31-07-2002 03:15									#40
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Arrian An interesting sidenote that I forgot to mention about this game: the Iroquois rushed Bach's with a leader. I watched him be created, moved, and immediately there was a popup "the Iroquois have completed JS Bachs." I'm 99% sure they were no where near finishing it by conventional means. Plus, I never saw an Iroquois army, despite them being at war for a while after this. So a good move by the AI there.

Very cool!

	31-07-2002 05:20									#41
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Arrian An interesting sidenote that I forgot to mention about this game: the Iroquois rushed Bach's with a leader. I watched him be created, moved, and immediately there was a popup "the Iroquois have completed JS Bachs." I'm 99% sure they were no where near finishing it by conventional means. Plus, I never saw an Iroquois army, despite them being at war for a while after this. So a good move by the AI there. -Arrian

That's good to hear! The AI does seem to be doing a better job with the new patch. I have investigated a couple of cities in my current game, just to see what's up. They are building factories, more culture etc. It's making for a better game. (on Regent)
Now if Soren had only made the AI workers better at how they improve the city tiles, they would really be competitive.
It really pains me when you look at the map and see bonus grassland irrigated, and 'normal' grassland mined. Wheat tiles mined etc. I am still seeing a lot of size 12 AI cities with only 7 or 8 tiles improved at all. Especially the Non Industrious civs. They aren't building enough workers, at least that what it looks like to me.
Oh well, at least it gives my workers something to do when I capture a city in the late game. They have to rework at least half the tiles.

	31-07-2002 09:13									#42
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Side note:

Isn't it silly to be able to check both domination and conquest victories? I mean, domination would preclude a conquest victory, wouldn't it?

	31-07-2002 19:07									#43
	Got spare money?

I tried several 1.29 games recently and find that I can't play on monarch level any more because I just get annoyed. After all these patches the little irritations still remain e.g. AI still tramps through your country like it doesn't know you exist while foaming at the mouth the second one of your unarmed scouts gets caught by their expanding culture border. I couldn't find a single nation willing to trade gold per turn for any of my items even if they had plenty of gold in their treasury.

	31-07-2002 19:50									#44
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Grumbold,

That's strange (the trading part, not the trespassing). I was able to sell things to the AI for large amounts of GPT despite having a horrible reputation. They wouldn't touch a trade with me where I paid GPT with a 12 foot electrified cattle prod, but I had no problems selling luxuries and technology.

Matt G,

I feel your pain re: the terrain improvements. Actually, there is no difference between mining the normal grassland/irrigating the bonus grassland and the other way around (both ways produce 5 food, 2 shields). It's more that the AI is programmed to just alternate mines and irrigation (when irrigation is possible) no matter what. This harms their productivity. We humans are able to optomize things by getting a city up to size 12 and then mining as much as possible without starvation. The AI's size 12 cities will often have large food surplusses, which until hospitals is a waste. I think perhaps a slight change to the AI's mine/irrigation ratio would help out, but then you may see AI cities get stuck at size 8 or something. It's gotta be a real ***** to program.

-Arrian

	31-07-2002 21:50									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Matt G, I feel your pain re: the terrain improvements. Actually, there is no difference between mining the normal grassland/irrigating the bonus grassland and the other way around (both ways produce 5 food, 2 shields).

I Should have said shielded grassland. That's what I meant by 'bonus'. They irrigate shielded and mine normal. Of course there are times when mining normal grassland is the way to go. Like if you have some floodplains. Then I will mine everything else depending on how much food I can get out of them.

quote: Originally posted by Arrian The AI's size 12 cities will often have large food surplusses, which until hospitals is a waste. I think perhaps a slight change to the AI's mine/irrigation ratio would help out, but then you may see AI cities get stuck at size 8 or something. It's gotta be a real ***** to program. -Arrian

Yep, you're right about the size 12 cities. I have seen them sitting at size 12 with 6 or even 7 extra food but the damn thing is only putting out 15 or 16 shields.

I'm sure it would be a real b**** to program though. That's a shame, because the AI would be more formidable if this could be programmed right.

	31-07-2002 22:13									#46
	Put an end to popups!

i've noticed changes in game play on huge maps. the comercial trait is definately better (increased production of gold)- at least for the greeks under a republic. i have to check the details for corruption. also civs focus more on their historical strengths (english spas with navy, germans with cavalry and tanks ect.) the AI is smarter too. they'll use hit an run as well as precision strikes with various units instead of just slamming into you. one annoying thing is the greed the ai has now-they want so much for trades, even on warlord. is worse at monarch+ diplomacy between AIs seems to make more sense-they do it now. i've had a major world war-just like WWI, alliances that trigger chaos. one thing i havent seen is AI fighter action. getting better. if the AI could have stronger strategic thought instead of mass building and bunching... though they no longer keep their entire army\navy in one spot-spread it out all over in their territory for once!

	01-08-2002 03:14									#47
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Well my game is up to about 1750. I'm still way behind on tech (it seems more like an emperor rather than a monarch game). The AI is still trading techs pretty effectively with itself and keeping those civs ahead in the tech race. I havent seen any evidence yet of improved AI battle tactics, but its been pretty peaceful so far after taking 3 cities including the capital from Egypt.

	01-08-2002 07:43									#48
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I put down Civ3 for awhile to play with my playstation 2. But 1.29 has me playing again. Although 1.29 does not fix the modern era tech tree, I have. Check out my mod (click the link in my signature).

	01-08-2002 10:02									#49
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Two things I have noticed:

1. You can no longer blackmail large amount of techs from the AI when you have them by the throats. Even before their immediate extermination they don't give any valuable.

2. AI is now busy upgrading its units. When I faced off Egyptians in late Industrial Age, all their defensive units were Infantries.

Good job, Firaxis!

	01-08-2002 13:11									#50
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The rationale behind the trading policies of Ai civs is simple...

If you are a relatively small civ in comparison then you'll get a good trading deal with your luxuries and resources.

If you are have a massive sprawling empire you'll get pittance for what you have to offer, at least as far as luxuries and resources are concerned.

Remember the worth of resources and luxuries is a whole lot greater to a massive empire than they do to a small one...

	01-08-2002 16:10									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless 2. AI is now busy upgrading its units. When I faced off Egyptians in late Industrial Age, all their defensive units were Infantries. Good job, Firaxis!

If thats true its great news.

My game, 1865 or so I've just made it to middle-late industrial with a tech every 5-6 turns. The indians have already built the manhatten project and the UN and have airports in every city. All this from a CIV about the same size as mine.

I may lose a game at monarch level

	01-08-2002 20:35									#52
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quote: Originally posted by =DrJambo= The rationale behind the trading policies of Ai civs is simple... If you are a relatively small civ in comparison then you'll get a good trading deal with your luxuries and resources. If you are have a massive sprawling empire you'll get pittance for what you have to offer, at least as far as luxuries and resources are concerned. Remember the worth of resources and luxuries is a whole lot greater to a massive empire than they do to a small one...

I don't mean the normal trades during peace time. In older versions, if you are putting AI Civs under military pressure, they would give you all their techs after losing only a few cities to you.

	01-08-2002 21:10									#53
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Cleo was the number 1 civ and I was number 4 but she wouldnt give me anything despite having taken 3 of her cities including her capitol. Thats a change for sure.