24-07-2002 21:41									#1
	Discussion: Sucession in case of impeachments/resignation Got spare money?

As we all know we have been debating the impeachment amendment vigorously. However there is an issue that is also very important(maybe more so since it will happen and impeachment, hopefully won't).
This is the issue of sucession if somebody is removed or resigns. Here is a plan I have come up with to solve this issue. Obviously this will ultimately be an amendment.
a) If a president leaves office for any reason, the vice president immediately assumes his duties. The new president then selects a new vice president from the cabinet and nominates to the people a successor to the old minister position. The people vote on the approval of the person. I don't want a full blown election, only a yes/no on candidate.
b) If vice president or other elected official is removed or resigns, the president appoints a successor using the same rules as above.
c) If a judge is removed or resigns, the president will appoint as usual, except the new judge will be up for reappointment at the end of the current term.

Well there it is short and to the point. Comments?
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 24-07-2002 at 21:47

	24-07-2002 21:51									#2
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Sounds about right to me. Needs an official poll with 2/3 majority to pass into the CoL of course

	24-07-2002 22:19									#3
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Pretty Good, though I would not limit the VP choice as someone from the minister pool.

Also, just to clarify because I know we discussed this in another thread....a justice can be reappointed when their term expires in any normal situation, so I would make it mandatory that the replacement judge be reappointed.

quote: b. Installing the First Court: The First Court appointed, upon ratification of this amendment, are to be chosen to staggering terms. One member will serve for one month, two will serve for two months and the remaining two will serve for three months. These first Justices of the Court will be appointed in the following manner: President selects 2 (3 month terms), Vice President selects 1 (two month term), Minister of Imperial Expansion(two month term) selects 1 and Econimics Minister selects 1 (one month term). All appointments must be approved by a majority vote of the public. c. Terms in office: There is no limit to the number of terms a Justice may serve. Each Justice serves a term of three months in length, except as indicated above in 2b. All appointments and re-appointments must be approved by a majority vote of the public.

	25-07-2002 00:05									#4
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No.

If a president leaves, VP takes over, and we vote for a new bucket of warm spit.

If a VP leaves, we vote for a new one

If a minister leaves, we vote for a new one.

If the Historian leaves, well, that doesnt seem to matter, because it happened and no one cared...

	25-07-2002 00:14									#5
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I just going to do a little bump with me saying that I don't really care how far the chain of command goes, I'd just like to see something pass to address the issue.

I'd like to urge people to vote yea on whatever comes to the polls on this issue, as long as it isn't wacky. It can be changed later if needed. This is a gap in or system that should not exist.

	25-07-2002 00:24									#6
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quote: No. If a president leaves, VP takes over, and we vote for a new bucket of warm spit. If a VP leaves, we vote for a new one If a minister leaves, we vote for a new one. If the Historian leaves, well, that doesnt seem to matter, because it happened and no one cared...

This is the way it should be. Give the power to the people!

	25-07-2002 00:27									#7
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yes sheik, thats it. im glad we agree on this! wait a second! are you in the ... D ... I ... A ...???? agghghhhg uber will kill me

	25-07-2002 03:14									#8
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The people still get a say. They can vote to reject the presidential nominee. Full scale elections with the campaign+poll period are simply not a practical course of action. Lets say a person resigns, the 1st day of his term. Then we have the candidate announcement time. Then we have the actual vote. This would take about a week total. So that person would have about 2 weeks before the real election campaign begins. Now it is unlikly a person will resign or leave office before a week(lets face it impeachment will take at least a week I suspect). So as a practical matter anybody so elected would practically be elected and then start their campaign. There simply isn't enough time for a full honest election. The only alternative to the current plan I see is for the spot to stay vacant or the runner up from the election automatically take over the ministry/vp position. Since this person didn't win the first time it is unlikely he/she represents the will of the people.
jdjdjd: I am pretty neutral on the vp coming from the ministers. My main reason for this, is that this way the vp was elected in a regular election at least once. I don't want somebody who wasn't elected being a crashed comp away from the presidency.
Also on the judicial appointment, I am open to the idea of autoreappointments, for a judge thus appointed, However I don't want to tie the hands of the next president too much. This is why I made this thread, to get ideas. So keep them coming.
Aggie

	25-07-2002 03:37									#9
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It seems many poeple think the official should remain in power until the end of the impeachment procedure.
Maybe we can include succession elections into the procedure, to make sure the successor is elected. Once a successor has been elected, the impeached one should be removed, not before.

In detail, during the impeachment process, the court should call for potential replacements, who will answer by PM (to avoid intimidation).
With this, should the official be officially impeached, the court could set up a poll for replacement immediately. The election should be quickened (I think 3 days is the current minimum). At the end, the regular winner is elected to replace the official for the rest of the term.

I know we can say the VP replaces the president, should he fail for any reason, as stated in the constitution. But I don't think it's the intent of the constitution. I thought the intent of a VP was to replace a sick or dying or absent president, not a corrupt one.

	25-07-2002 05:00									#10
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This issue is mute.

We have in effect already taken this and done what was necessary.

If a minister leaves, and if people want to take over the position, a vote is held. (I lost to Jonny for IE Minister about a month ago in this situation). If nobody cares, the other ministers take on the missing persons duties until the next election.

The VP has played for the prez when the prez isn't able to play.

So, all has occured. All has been resolved. There is no need to make anything any more formal. Enough with all the rules being chisled into stone. We are here to play a game of Civ together, and have some fun.

Sorry if I am sniping, it is just that these topics have gotten out of hand the last couple of days. Lets just play the game instead of making all sorts of rules. Thanks for reading my rant. Sorry if I offended anyone.

	25-07-2002 09:51									#11
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Maybe Godking is right. Just let it be handeled, and if there is any controversy, our new High Court can handle it, making a ruling on a situation by situation basis.

And during the impeachment process, a replacement should be found in case the official is removed.

If people do want something in stone though, perhaps the proceedures that we have already done, as Godking detailed, should be put into writting.
Though, I think all of the ideas proposed so far are adaquate to me, and I would vote for anyone of them.

Kman

	25-07-2002 16:33									#12
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It's quite simple: if tehre's ever an absent position, the president appoint a temporary successor until a poll is up, then there is an election. THe one exception is judges; the people only have to approve the president's choice but the judge is up for election next turn.

1 problem: What if both prez and VP resign (VP doesnt want responsibility of being prez)? I suppose then the game has to halt for a few days to hold elections.