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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
Sure, but I can also point out that every time a democrat left office the economy was in recession.  |
Same thing can be said of Republicans. The one at the end of Eisenhower's term sank Nixon's presidential bid. The one after Nixon is what got Carter. Reagan's was the one that killed Bush Sr.
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I could point that everytime a republican was in power the economy had long period of expansions, such as Eisenhower, Nixon and Reagan. |
Everytime? Hoover? Bush Sr.?
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Johnson? Carter? Clinton? |
As I said, Carter's was Nixon's residue. Johnson? Don't recall there being a terrible recession in his time. And Clinton...duh, like I said, longets economic expansion in history.
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Clinton´s economy? It wasn´t Clinton who was running things but the Federal Reserve. Clinton didn´t even know what he was doing being as stupid as he was. |
You don't want to go down this road, because you will have to admit that Reagan was in the same position. And calling Clinton stupid is laughable. He is very smart, agree with him or not. I doubt you will ever be a two-term president of any country. Considering the kinds of logic I've seen you use on these boards, I don't think you have any room to call him stupid.
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You probably give me the same reason about GWB, but I happen to appreciate him. |
I wouldn't give the same reason to GWB, because he has yet to oversee an economic expansion. In fact, his policies have helped prolong the current recession. You should hate this man. You appreciate his steel tariffs?
I know you appreciate him, because you're a party-driven automaton who is mentally incapable of removing himself from being wedged up the GOP's arse. And that's pretty amazing for a non-U.S. resident!
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Also by the time Clinton left the economy was on its way to recession. |
Same is true for Eisenhower and Reagan, and would have been for Nixon had the evil bastard not been caught and run out of town.
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Ummm hate to break this to you but it was WWII that ended the Depression not the keynesian "New Deal". |
Really? Hmmm, I think you'll find ample evidence that the dramatic recovery from the Depression began many, many years before WWII ever began. Unfounded rubbish.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
Edit: I am not in the mood.
I will present this:
I believe in economic progress therefore I hate the democrats. Simple as that. Could there be anything more to it? Nope. The democrats are pretty much against economic progress. |
Well at least you PRETENDED to try. That is usupportable. The US does very well economicly with Democratic presidents. It did extremely well for almost the entire Clinton administration. Its having quite a problem under Bush the second and Bush the first didn't do so well either.
Learn some history Fez.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Ethelred, we didn't think the Democrats were finished before Clinton -- we just thought that Bush was untouchable. |
I take you weren't politically aware then. The Republicans acted like they had some sort of god given right to controll both Houses, the Presidency and the then the Supreme Court. You should have heard the disgustingly whiney speach that Senator Bob Dole gave after Clinton won. He made it sound like the voters had betrayed the Republican party.
I was so glad I had allready quit the Republican Party over that appaling fool Greedy Killerwatt that Reagan had as his Secretary of the Interior. I do wonder if he has come to terms with the fact that we are still here and that the Second Coming isn't.
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We only thought the Democrats were finished once Clinton handed us both houses of Congress. |
The Republicans couldn't even manage to hold on to that. They lost it and it happened because they were becoming intolerent of people that didn't think as the Religious Right wanted them to.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Again, that's order-of-the-day. |
So then, you didn't hear it.
It was beyond bad sportsmenship. Way beyond and the Senate Majority Leader should be above mere bad sportmanship in the first place as he had to work with the incoming President. I have never heard the like before or since so it was NOT the order of the day.
Greedy Killerwatt. As Secretary of the Interior he was the highest official, short of the President, in charge of conserving our national resources. He thought the End Was Comming in 2000 and that we had a mandate from god to use up all the natural resources before then. I am not kidding. Thats not to mention all the racist remarks the idiot made that finally got Reagan to can the fool.
It was unconsionable for Reagan to have a man like that in charge of a dogpound much less the most important conservation office in the government. I decided that was a clear indication that Reagan was not fit to be President. His later unconstitutional actions in Nicaragua confirmed that.
I actually voted FOR Reagan. Not just for the lesser of two evils. My mistake.
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I felt it had more to do with the successful spinning on the Democrats' part. As it so often does, for both parties. |
The man that switched was Senator. Do you really think mere spinning would get him to change parties? Idiots rarely become Senators and changing parties is hard to get away with when re-election comes around. Congressman maybe. There are couple of idiots in the Senate but they seem to have started out smarter and remain in by intertia.
I once actually liked the Republican Party. Then the Right Wing got control. When it returns closer to the middle I may return to the party as well. At present I really can't stand the leaders.
Now if only the Democrats can find someone competent. Gore doesn't qualify anymore than Bush does. That was a bad election. An idiot and a guy that doesn't use the brains he has. Same result in the end. There wasn't even a lesser evil choice.
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Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Same thing can be said of Republicans. The one at the end of Eisenhower's term sank Nixon's presidential bid. The one after Nixon is what got Carter. Reagan's was the one that killed Bush Sr. |
If I can recall looking at proper sources Eisenhower had a good decent economic boom, and so did Nixon (though that one was shorter lived). And during Carter's regime there was double digit inflation and unemployment and a deep recession.
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As I said, Carter's was Nixon's residue. Johnson? Don't recall there being a terrible recession in his time. And Clinton...duh, like I said, longets economic expansion in history. |
Clinton was not responsible for that. And you know what Presidents are not responsible for the economy at all, the investors and federal reserve are. All Presidents can do is cut taxes and other minor things.
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I wouldn't give the same reason to GWB, because he has yet to oversee an economic expansion. In fact, his policies have helped prolong the current recession. You should hate this man. You appreciate his steel tariffs? |
You are the biggest bullshiter I have ever seen. Bush is trying to make the recession as short as possible such as the tax cuts. Only a dumb idiot would argue against tax cuts.
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I know you appreciate him, because you're a party-driven automaton who is mentally incapable of removing himself from being wedged up the GOP's arse. And that's pretty amazing for a non-U.S. resident! |
**** YOU. You are pretty much the same about those democratic asses who squeal all the time when they can get anything they want. You remind me of somebody, ah yes the corrupt PSOE.
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Same is true for Eisenhower and Reagan, and would have been for Nixon had the evil bastard not been caught and run out of town. |
Nixon is one of the greatest leaders ever to walk. He might of been paranoid but besides he was good.
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Really? Hmmm, I think you'll find ample evidence that the dramatic recovery from the Depression began many, many years before WWII ever began. Unfounded rubbish. |
You are messing up the facts as any democrat would do. It is clear the depression turned into a recession (a milder period of negativity) during the later 30s and was finally ended by the increase in production in the 40s (when car companies were producing tanks instead of cars) Roosevelt didn't even really have the support of the congress before the war.
Thanks for that typical idiot's response.
Oh and this might be an interesting read for somebody brainwashed by the democrapic party:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261.html
Don't turn down CATO as they are actually more libertarian.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Oh, I know who Watt is; I just couldn't figure out why you would lay into him out of the blue like that. |
Out of the blue? He was the trigger to my quiting the Republican Party and ample evidence that the Republicans don't always have the best interest of America in mind even when they think they do. He shouldn't have been nominated. He shouldn't have been approved. He should have been thrown out of office when he started selling oil leases that even the OIL COMPANIES thought were a bad idea.
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Do you have that speech, by any chance? |
Only pieces in my head. I tried to find it once. Those sorts of things aren't exactly easy to find years later. I may be misremembering it as I sometimes do other things that I can't check on. What I remember is the tone more than anything else.
If I tried to find it now I bet all I would get would be Dole vs Clinton in 96 and nothing from 92. Try finding stuff on the Web that was directly from the Reagan Admin. Anything more than a few years old starts to disapear and the older stuff was never put on the WEB in the first place. Its probably in newpaper archives somewhere. The key would be to look for stuff the day of the vote and the week after. I don't there is a set of words that would work on Google for a specific speach from a decade ago. It was off the cuff to TV reporters if I am recalling correctly as opposed to a formal speach to a news conference. So it was more what he really thought as opposed to a formal political speach that often is heavily adjusted to sound better.
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Verto
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Clinton wasn't responsible for the economic boon. The repression that occurred under Bush I. was already coming around towards the end of his administration. Most people didn't know this, and that was one of the reasons he lost the election.
Reagan said this: "Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours. Recovery is when Jimmy Carter loses HIS."
Carter said that inflation and gas prices were all just something we had to learn to live with. He had his misery index. He was well intentioned, maybe, but incompetent.
Reagan cut taxes; he ended the Keynesian theory that had been used and replaced it. Inflation dropped, people could afford home mortgage rates, and people on welfare were obligated to work. People were getting richer. Remember the Disappearing Middle Class? They were moving on up.
Besides that, he reversed the Soviet's expansion and ultimately forced them to commit suicide.
Also, it is true about Watts. Reagan even talked with some ministers about the Second Coming, Armageddon, and possibly using Revelations to predict the future. But he never used it to dictate policies.
Last edited by Verto on 28-07-2002 at 07:48
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
If I can recall looking at proper sources Eisenhower had a good decent economic boom |
Yes, but at the end of his 2nd term there was a recession, and that helped Nixon lose the 1960 Presidential race.
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and so did Nixon (though that one was shorter lived). And during Carter's regime there was double digit inflation and unemployment and a deep recession. |
The recession in Carter's admin was the cicular downturn from Nixon's boom.
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Clinton was not responsible for that. And you know what Presidents are not responsible for the economy at all, the investors and federal reserve are. All Presidents can do is cut taxes and other minor things. |
So you admit your initial post was a load of bullshit, since you accused Democratic presidents of being bad for the economy. If Democratic presidents can't get credit for their booms, neither can Republican.
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You are the biggest bullshiter I have ever seen. Bush is trying to make the recession as short as possible such as the tax cuts. Only a dumb idiot would argue against tax cuts. |
When did I mention tax cuts?
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**** YOU. You are pretty much the same about those democratic asses who squeal all the time when they can get anything they want. |
I believe it is the GOP who takes the cake in this regard. Ethelred already brought up Dole's whiney senate speech. And let's not forget Buchanan's glorious 1992 speech at the GOP convention. You really don't mind being associated with a party that tolerates that kind of hatemongering?
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You remind me of somebody, ah yes the corrupt PSOE. |
Well, you remind me of a clueless 17 year old who knows jack sh*t about which he speaks. DING DING! Good answer! Good answer! 
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Nixon is one of the greatest leaders ever to walk. He might of been paranoid but besides he was good. |
Now we see the bullshit going off the charts!
Nixon wasn't our worst president, but to deify him as some sort of gift to the world is ridiculous. Way to go into hyperbole!
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You are messing up the facts as any democrat would do. |
Ah yes, Republicans are sooo truthful. Just look at Rush Limbaugh, he wouldn't lie, would he? Or Reagan (Mr. "I don't recall")? Or Nixon?
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It is clear the depression turned into a recession (a milder period of negativity) during the later 30s and was finally ended by the increase in production in the 40s (when car companies were producing tanks instead of cars) Roosevelt didn't even really have the support of the congress before the war. |
America began a noticable recovery from the depression in 1934. This recovery continued until a temporary contraction in May of 1937, but that lasted only briefly. By 1938 the U.S. was well into recovery again, long before involvement in the war. The war certainly accelerated the growth, but to assert that Roosevelt's economic policies had nothing to do with the recovery is a bald-faced lie.
Certainly the American people thought highly of him, considering his three reelection wins.
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Thanks for that typical idiot's response. |
Thank you for proving all I've said before about your being a knee-jerk automaton of the GOP.
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Don't turn down CATO as they are actually more libertarian. |
Bullshit again. They are a conservative mouthpiece and you know it. Here, let me get you a page from the New Republic and see how you trust it...
Fez, one day you'll be an adult and realize that this unswerving loyalty to a political party is an empty, meaningless existence. The GOP is a soulless organization, as is any political party with power. To devote all this mindless obedience to it reminds me, frighteningly, of the Hitler Youth. Keep in mind that it has been Republicans who have had the worst problems with scandal and corruption, not Democrats. 29 members of the Reagan administration jailed (the most in history). Are the Democrats perfect and wonderful? Not by a longshot. No one's asking you to like the Democrats, either. But the Republicans aren't better, and in many ways (corporate whoring, hatred and bigotry) are much worse. Wouldn't you rather think for yourself than have Rush Limbaugh do it for you?
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
Reagan cut taxes; he ended the Keynesian theory that had been used and replaced it. |
With massive deficits that WE are still paying off.
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Inflation dropped, people could afford home mortgage rates, and people on welfare were obligated to work. People were getting richer. Remember the Disappearing Middle Class? They were moving on up. |
The cause is related to the one that destroyed Jimmuh's Election chances. Oil prices. When Jimmuh got into office the oil prices were climbing rapidly which was the cause of the inflation. Raising oil from a few bucks a barrel to 40 dollars couldn't do anything except cause inflation and damage to the world economy.
The cost of oil went back down some during the Reagan administration thus ending the main cause of inflation. This was not due to some brilliant manuever by Reagan either but at least partly due to the avarice of Saddam Hussein and his need to sell oil to pay for his war with Iran.
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Besides that, he reversed the Soviet's expansion and ultimately forced them to commit suicide. |
He didn't reverse it. It had allready stopped. What he did do was con them into spending more than they could afford to try to keep up. Some of it was a clever disinformation campaign and on this I commend the Reagan Administration. However its US that are still paying for that. I don't mind the expense considering the alternative but lets stop pretending that it wasn't Reagan that generated the massive deficits with his vodoo economics.
He cost over 100 billion with his idiotic deregulation of the S&Ls as well. He and Bush hid the crissis untill after Bush was elected which increased the cost of the disaster.
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Also, it is true about Watts. Reagan even talked with some ministers about the Second Coming, Armageddon, and possibly using Revelations to predict the future. But he never used it to dictate policies. |
Reagan wasn't exactly a religious man. He wasn't the one pushing family values either. In fact the people that screamed against Bush as being a liberal in comparison to Reagan were spouting nonsense. Reagan was always more liberal in action than in speach. Less so as president than as governor though. He talked conservative but usually was pragmatic when it came time to act. Usually. Then again vodoo economics wasn't in the least bit conservative. Spending what you haven't got is hardly a conservative thing to do.
Guess who signed California's law that legalized abortions?
Reagan.
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Ethelred
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quote:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-261.html - Libertarian Source... beat that you democratic hotshots! |
Beat what? That site is about the worst one you could post to support you. Its a crackpot site. The Cato Institute uses distorted English to hide things. They use bogus terms to describe themselves as Classical Liberals. There is NOTHING on that site that even hints of liberalism. Its a hidebound, closed mind, radical conservative site that even tries to pretend the gold standard make sense and that taxes should be volontary.
There isn't enough gold in the world to support the US economy much less the word economy. Volontary taxes is a sure road to chaos. We tried some of the stuff they spout a long time ago. The first US government failed and it DID follow much of the crap on that site. The Articles of Confederation were a dismal failure and if the Cato Insane Asylum was to have its way we would do the same stupid failed things again.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
And btw fools, CATO IS libertarian so stop with this bullshit. Pardon my language but I am tired of these lies and stupid remarks. |
Cato is what I said it was. That is exactly what a radical libertarian is, STUPID. Private Police ONLY. Privite schools ONLY. STUPID mindless self interest and pure unadulterated rapacious greed is what it is. Enlightened self-interest is what it isn't.
There is no excuse for an inteligent rational thinking person to get sucked into something as narrow minded and self-centered as radical libertarianism.
Can you tell I am sick of Libertarians pretending to have the best interests of the US at heart? The only thing they care about is their wallet when it gets down to policy and past the platitudes. Fez, surely you aren't that desperate to avoid taxes?
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27-07-2002 09:11
Good thing I'm not perfect.
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