27-07-2002 08:43									#1
	Late Game Battles Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I've recently got bvack into playing Master of Orion II afteer several years (OK, it was too hard the first time through). Anyhow, I've gotten close to the end-game pphase- I'm probably the biggest nation, but several other races come close. So when the Darloks attack me, I think that its a great time to send out my fleet and claim their spac... right? Wrong. My Titans and Battleships fell to pieces in battle against the impossibly strong Battlestations and planets of the Darloks. When I scanned their Battlestation, I noticed htat it had 2000 armor and 2000 structure! Any good ideas on how to defeat the brute force of these enemy worlds?

	28-07-2002 04:10									#2
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Depends on your tech level and what they have.

Outfit a ship with battle scanner, battle pods, All the other beam specials you have like structural analyzer, high energy focus, achilles.

I usually put heavy armor or reinforced hull on battleships and bigger.

End game I like heavy auto-fire phasors or AF disruptors. Put a ton of those on a ship, leaving space for a few regular and point defence beams for shooting down fighters and missiles.

Your only potential problem might be with planetary defences. If they have class X and the Barrier shield you need the High energy focus for your disruptors to even get through.

	28-07-2002 06:01									#3
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You don't say what type of game and where you are so it is hard to say. Attach a save game for that point if you have one. If you are at hard or impossible levels and have researched the 3500 rp stuff, then I would wonder if they got to Orion. Go to the Info and look at the race tech for the Darloks to see what they have for armor and shields. Best advice is to not let the Ai get Orion before you. That means at the point of the game were plasma cannons are researched, you need to locate Orion and get to it before them. If they get X-armor, it will make your game much harder.
Garth gave you the best weapons to use. I like phasors well as many mods as I can get other than PD. Those I put in BB. In titans (often do not have) or Doom, I put in Disrupters with all the mods except heavy. You can use that, but will get fewer guns. In BB add in HA or Hulls, stabilizer battle pods for all ships. No need for additional specials. In titans or dooms add in all of the specials you can fit. HEF is a must for them. In dooms I will use Nullifiers if I have them. Those ships can bust anything. In dooms, I will put one Stellar to allow destorying of planets. Be sure to put warps on one planet per system to slow down attacks. If you do not want to wait for disrupter, use plasma cannons and get close to the BS. Those will chop it down. Even at impossible, when you get the 3500 rp done, you should be making much better ships than the AI. The other thing is do you have good officers and are they experienced? I like to try to keep my fleet stationed at a system with the most academies to build up the crew and if I have an instructor, so much the better. If you show up in a battle with a fleet that has no stars and they have three star crews, you are in trouble.

	28-07-2002 19:13									#4
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Shadowstrike,

I am not sure if you are doing these things, so here goes:

1. Keep updating your ships. It's dumb to send out old ships

2. Build at least a couple of space academies, and see if you can get a leader with the instruction skill.

3. Build big, bad arse ships. Put on autofire phasors with shield piercing. Add heavy armour, reinforced hull, automatic repair unit, high energy focus, structural analyzer, archilles targeting unit, the whole works. It will be better still if you have xentronium armour and damper field, but I am assuming you haven't been to Orion

4. Always play tactical combat

	29-07-2002 05:20									#5
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 In dooms, I will put one Stellar to allow destorying of planets.

All good advice except for this bit. Vmxa, you don't mean put a stellar converter on every DS do you?
That would be a tremendous waste of space as they're just not that useful against ships. Against planets you can just have a single one in your strike fleet and it'll take out a planetary defense facility almost every turn at any range (Add in a TWF and the planetary defenses aren't going to last long at all). Just keep your ships away from the planet until the ground batteries have been neutralized.

quote: Put on autofire phasors with shield piercing. Add heavy armour, reinforced hull, automatic repair unit, high energy focus, structural analyzer, archilles targeting unit, the whole works.

I'd substitute the heavy armour belt for a TWF if you can. And perhaps add the damper field if you still have a special available. Otherwise that makes a very very mean ship.

quote: It will be better still if you have xentronium armour and damper field, but I am assuming you haven't been to Orion

If he's careful he doesn't need to go to Orion for those little tidbits. Being the largest race (unless he's lucky) he should be on the receiving end of most of the Antaran raids. The raids conducted by ships - all of which are equipped with the two items you mentioned.

	29-07-2002 08:12									#6
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Maybe he got "Antaran Attacks" turn off?

	29-07-2002 08:22									#7
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I'd substitute the heavy armour belt for a TWF if you can. And perhaps add the damper field if you still have a special available. Otherwise that makes a very very mean ship. If he's careful he doesn't need to go to Orion for those little tidbits. Being the largest race (unless he's lucky) he should be on the receiving end of most of the Antaran raids. The raids conducted by ships - all of which are equipped with the two items you mentioned.

I did not go into the details, but by the time I make doomstars the game is in the bag and I am just trying to end it all. In that case I will make several DS, each with a SC as they will go on their own to destroy planets and nothing else. Destroy, not conquer. I do not want anyone to colonize them again. If, I am not going to do that, I will not even make DS at all. True, it is a space hog, but who cares by then? Planetary defense are no concern at this time and I am busting them without Ds. I just want them to kill planets, nothing else. TWF is just the same as SC, do not need it, it is just a fun toy.
Anyway, I think it is safe to say that if you are having trouble with battels at the stage being talked abbout, you are not up to capturing antarian ships an do not know how to use TWF. I never bother doing that or using TWF or Phase Cloaks, they are not necessary. They can be fun, but so can a conveter. Not required.
Plus I do not know if antarians are turned on, they may not be. I only use them in my games when I want to get a better score. Too me they are just a boring interruption.
For just wining the battles tha twas in question, I would use BB an dmake lots of them with the stuff mentioned, Phasors or Disruptors or maybe some Plasma cannons. You will be cranking them out very fast, no need to wait for Titans or DS.

	30-07-2002 12:05									#8
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During late games I tend to build large ships - better staying power and better use of command points.

	30-07-2002 21:24									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger During late games I tend to build large ships - better staying power and better use of command points.

Yes that is true. All I am saying is that it does not matter what you do at that stage of the game. You could win with out building any more ships, you could win building destroyer class ship, what ever you want. I just have a monster planet cranking out some ship. Often it is the BB. Sometimes I find it fun to make titans and or DS, other times I just can't see the point and stick with the last thing I was building.

The key is, once you start rolling the AI, it does not matter what you do, it is only a matter of taste. The AI has no idea of how to beat you from this point forward.

	07-08-2002 09:48									#10
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Where's the fun when you don't produce large nasty doomstars? There's no point continuing is there?

	07-08-2002 10:44									#11
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That is exactly the point, there is no reason to continue then. I may make a DS with a converter to destoy planets to get the game over or if I have Anties on go get them. I only enjoy going to the end on small maps. Huge are a real bore to me, to much repetive actions. I have been playing them as on impossible level it keeps the wars from starting so soon.

	07-08-2002 17:40									#12
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One thing I've always liked about MOO2 is that the game usually ends(Voting) before it gets really boring (meaning bashing last AI remnants). I hope that AI in MOO3 is so clever that it could make up something nasty after the game is "already won". Too much to ask, I suppose...

	07-08-2002 21:34									#13
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Yup, in a hug map the game is "over" before you can win the vote, so you are forced to go on. I do not research Dim Door so I have to wait until I can steal it.

	08-08-2002 12:57									#14
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Usually when the game is in that endphase and i control 25-30% of the galaxy i like to vote against myself in the election and not accept the ruling.. gives you a nice big enemy fleet to blow up

	08-08-2002 15:16									#15
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Why bother waiting the voting, you can just declare war on everyone Or buy some friends and win the vote... Well, at least you may try...

	08-08-2002 16:51									#16
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well if they get united there will be 1 BIG fleet instead of 4 smaller ones and your single titan can really flip its muscles

	08-08-2002 22:06									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Alphard Usually when the game is in that endphase and i control 25-30% of the galaxy i like to vote against myself in the election and not accept the ruling.. gives you a nice big enemy fleet to blow up

I used that tactic in Moo, but on small maps.

	08-08-2002 22:09									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Aqa Why bother waiting the voting, you can just declare war on everyone Or buy some friends and win the vote... Well, at least you may try...

I am usually at war with all already. I have been playing as Repulsive, so you can not made any deals of any kind as you have no diplomatic relations. You must kill all or enough to get the votes to win or go to Anties if they are in the game.

	09-08-2002 13:29									#19
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I like playing repulsive sometimes. No need to think about diplomacy Just kill, kill, kill... And very easy to make a überrace using rep minus. No hope getting the best leaders tough..

	09-08-2002 21:14									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Aqa No hope getting the best leaders tough..

I get some good leaders. You have to wait for awhile. I tend to get rid of one or more of my early leaders when I get the third one so I can have room for a super leader, if the original is say a farmer. Later in the gaem I do not want a farmer. By I have gotten Galactic leaders as Rep. They seem to come anyway as you have lots of money and maybe a famaous leader as well.

	09-08-2002 22:11									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yeah, but early game is when great leaders really matter. In the end-game, they're just icing on the cake anyway. Well, with the possible exception of spy leaders, who keep their utility right to the very end.

	10-08-2002 00:03									#22
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I am not sure of the exact comparison, but the super leaders will not come at the start regardless of your traits. So as near as I have seen, it has little impact on leaders. They seems to come essentially the same either way. You are not likely to get any level 3 leaders in the early game. Level 1 will come either way and so soon will level 2. Remember they level up.

	10-08-2002 06:39									#23
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Well, you wont get the very best leaders from get-go, even if you're carismatic, but some early megawealthers can do wonders for your economy. And those seem to queue at your doorstep unless you're repulsive

	11-08-2002 04:44									#24
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Yeah, I do not mind a very ealry Megawealth. +10 bc is not bad in the first 100-200 turns.I can not say diffinitively that it stopped them from coming, but if it did it was not for long.

	11-08-2002 17:05									#25
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On thing I always hated with Moo2 was how you need to free up a slot in order to get a new leader... would it have killed them to allow me to kick a leader when a new one offers to join?

	11-08-2002 21:35									#26
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Moomin, what year was Che talking about and what in he heck did he know about it anyway.

	11-08-2002 22:38									#27
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Not that we should discuss it in here, but that was his estimation of the entire Soviet toll - or possibly Stalins total, which he seems to think is pretty much the same since nothing bad ever happened in the USSR except for Uncle Joe anyway. How amazing I find these insights should be pretty evident, given that they've found a home in my sig.

	12-08-2002 04:52									#28
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Most put Joes toll at around 27 million. 800K is not even is best year.