14-09-1999 10:10									#1
	Quick Start Scenario Created Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Created Quick Start the scenario.

dutcheesescenariopak6.zip

Designed for PBEM games and shorter game play.

Start in 1500 AD with 24 advances, 10,000 public works, 10,000 gold, 10 settlers, a knight, and a transport.

The first 10 cities created by each player auto grow to size 5 if built before turn 4.

Beginning special units posses extended movement, 0 firepower, and 1 hitpoint. Knight and transport are removed at turn 3.

Uses random map features.

dutcheese
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 15, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 18, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 18, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 19, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 23, 1999).]

	16-09-1999 00:10									#2
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Hi,

Posted an update to the Quick Start Scenario.

Fixed not enough production to build improvements caused by too many musketeers at startup--could build but only after disbanding some units.

Creating the first 10 cities gives 2 musketeers now rather than 4.

Also changed years per turn for early periods of the game. Was set as high as 50 year per turn. Now set to 4 years per turn.

Please place comments in this thread.

dutcheese
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 15, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 18, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 18, 1999).]

	17-09-1999 09:19									#3
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I'm having a problem with the Quick Start pbem scenario. My game is not giving the extra units to the other players at the start of the game. I have tried uninstall/reinstall of the C:CTP game, patches and scenariopaks.

I am using the following:
C:CTP, Patches 1.1 & 1.2, unofficial patch 1.21, dutcheese scenariopak1.

	17-09-1999 09:39									#4
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Hi Swissy,

I just installed the unoffical 1.21 patch and the scenario worked fine.

The Quick Start scenario was created with CTP installed and 1.2 installed--nothing else was installed.

The extra units are created at the beginning of each player's turn. Are the extra units there for the other players after your first turn?

dutcheese
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 16, 1999).]

	17-09-1999 11:51									#5
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Hi,

Updated the Quick Start scenario and adjusted the download link listed above and below for the new file.

Added one more initial advance for a total of 25 initail advances. Added Ocean Faring to enable Fisheries when cities are created therefore the initial cities grow in size more quickly.

Doubled initial Public Works provided to each player, from 10,000 to 20,000, since Fisheries cost double or more to build.

Also increased initial gold from 10,000 to 15,000.

Let me know what you want in this scenario and I'll make the changes or at least play the scenario in single player mode for testing before starting a PBEM game.

Do you think there is enough initial gold or do you want initial different or more advances?

I don't want give too much gold because it might be used to buy troops rather than building improvements. What to you thing?

dutcheese
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 18, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 18, 1999).]

	17-09-1999 16:25									#6
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Probally a stupid question, but i am going to ask it anyway.


If i just unzip to the ctp game directory everytime you come up with a new and improved version, will it overwrite the older version.
If this is the case i wont have to go in there and manually rip out the old version.

Thanks very much for taking the time and making this scenario.

	18-09-1999 00:34									#7
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What happens if a PBEM file created with a scenario is opened by a player without the scenario ?

Does the file open but the player has different rules to everyone else ?

If so how does it know which scenario was created in ?

....or is all the required data in the PBEM file so only the creator needs the scenario ?

or does the whole thing break down in that “doh!! hadn't thought of that", way software developers have (me included) ?


[This message has been edited by Frazer (edited September 17, 1999).]

	18-09-1999 06:30									#8
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One thing happened to me which I thought was funny. I probally wouldn't if I was in an actual game and not just fooling around.

What happened was I had the settings on alot of land and not alot of ocean. But it had some rivers and one these rivers had a little lake or pond ( it was only in one square). Well in this pond was the transport, it kinda looked funny sitting there all by itself surrounded by land.

I have seen the ai do that in civ 2, it sits there for nearly the whole game until somebody comes along and sinks it.

Another question about upgrades.
If i had your latest version and was in the middle of a PBEM game. And you came up with a newer version would i be able to use it with the game I am currently using?

I bet you will get alot of different answers on how many advances,units and how much gold to insert into the scenario. You could mess with this part forever and still not have it to everybodys liking. As long as everybody is playing on a level playing field, what does it matter. I think alot of us just want to get past the boring first part of the game where you are only moving a couple of units per turn and then waiting another 24 hrs for your next turn.

I downloaded the second version and liked what I saw, it looks like everybody will see action right away.

Another thing I noticed is that you will need a big map if your are playing with alot of players. Because by the time you get done building all those cities your going to take up alot of real estate. It will be one big land grab at the start depending on the map.


[This message has been edited by DON (edited September 17, 1999).]

	18-09-1999 13:32									#9
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Wow, Thanks for the feedback.

Frazer brought up very good points about what other email players settings and files need to be before starting a PBEM game with a scenario. Well I went and tested it by creating an online email account and using my own provider.

This is what I found and it is very disturbing : PBEM games do not look in the scenario folder. So this means to play a quick start PBEM game you need a MOD rather than a scenario.

I must confess that I developed and tested this scenario using hotseat play thinking things would work the same with PBEM games but they don't. It is definitely a bug. The bug is PBEM games cannot use scenarios.

I'll look into modifying this scenario to see how and if it will really work with PBEM.

The Quick Start scenario works fine with:
single player games
hotseat games

Scenario do not work with:
PBEM games

Have not test if online games with with:
scenarios

Sorry everyone... Will contact Activision about the bug to see if they will fix it quickly. Will also contact the ctpfan that created the 1.21 unoffical patch to see if he can fix this too.

If you still want the Quick Start game made into a MOD I'll do it if you'll use it. One option is to create a batch file that over rights the original files, play the PBEM game, then run another batch file that puts the original files back in place. But of course this adds two extra steps for every PBEM turn.

dutcheese

[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 18, 1999).]

	18-09-1999 17:24									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

That sucks

I just fooled around with the hotseat and didnt try the PBEM.

As for my two stupid not worth answering questions, I will just assume the answers are yes and for the second one no.

[This message has been edited by DON (edited September 18, 1999).]

	18-09-1999 18:36									#11
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Three more things I discovered

1. sometimes for some reason a unit dies right as the game is loading up. In one game I only had 9 settlers at the beginning. I cant see it but i can hear somebody getting knocked off. That little yell they let out.

2. This might be a connection to No 1, but sometimes I dont get a transport.

3. A message came up saying my knight ran off, like you said it would after 3 turns.
Well in the single player game Im trying out it didnt. It also said the transport was lost at sea but once again I didnt have one.
[This message has been edited by DON (edited September 18, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by DON (edited September 18, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by DON (edited September 18, 1999).]

	18-09-1999 23:02									#12
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Hi,

Worked everything out Had to modify a couple of original game files though.

messageicon.txt
strings.txt
uniticon.txt
units.txt

Modifing these game files will not effect normal game play when not using the Quick Start scenario.

You will be able to use the PBEM Quick Start scenario, continue with other PBEM games all ready in progress, and start new PBEM games that do not use any PBEM Quick Start features.

You can have the PBEM Quick Start scenario installed and start or participate in a PBEM game with someone that does not have the PBEM Quick Start scenario installed--a normal PBEM game without using a scenario.

What's added to the files:
Messageicon.txt -- two lines for notification icons when the city grows in size.
strings.txt -- added a line to include the dutcheese.txt game info.
uniticon.txt -- added three lines for the new units
units.txt -- added three units settler1, troop_ship1, and knight1. These are the initial units of the game with increased movement points. You can never build these units.

One more point. Could not set the turn years correclty due to the PBEM scenario bug. Therefore the game starts in 4000 BC.

Believe it is worth the install even with the modified game files, since game play without actualy playing the scenario in not effected.

Don,

Sorry I didn't address your posts earlier. My wife was demanding some attension.

You may unzip a new version onto the old version. Might be some left over files but they are very small and will not effect new versions of the scenario.

A big map sounds like a good idea to reduce the conflict over the land grab since the last player might have to come out fighting--but this could be good too.

If you've already started a PBEM game loading a newer version will not effect the game in progress.

Transports... A transport is created 5 spaces away from where your first settler is placed. If this turns out to be a pond then your transport will be placed here. If there is no water within 5 spaces of your first unit you will not get a transport.

Units... The initial unit is killed after your first ten units are created since the initial unit only has 1 movement and the new units have 25 movement for good location placement on turn 1. The first unit being killed is the death sound you hear.

Not sure why you only had nine units. If this happens again please confirm by selecting units from the status tab.

The initial units being removed message was changed.

To use this scenario in a PBEM game:
All players need the scenario installed.
The host picks map size etc.
The host picks player order.
Other player just need to double click the file they get in their email from Windows explorer.

The scenario is easy to load and fun to play

Hope this covers it.

dutcheese

[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 18, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 18, 1999).]

	18-09-1999 23:10									#13
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Thanks dutcheese your efforts are much appreciated.

	19-09-1999 01:21									#14
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I had the following problem with the PBEM Quick Start scenarion

This involved a saved pbem game (US PBEM.
I opened the saved game and found the following:

My warrior was changed into a cyber ninja!
The unit on the map had the warrior sprite, but the picture on the control panel was a cyber ninja. The unit had the sound and movemant of a cyber ninja.

The phalanx I was building turned into a Triemere. It had the picture of the triemere under the production tab. The city was building the trimere at the same speed as it was building the phalanx.

I uninstalled/reinstalled C:CTP, along with the patches(1.1 & 1.2). Everything was back to normal after reinstallation

Sorry for the bad news Dutcheese

	19-09-1999 01:34									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hi,

Thanks for testing.

Posted another update

Added the wormhole probe back into the units list (Was taken out for a special rules game). Hope this fixes the mixup of the icons.

If this doesn't fix it I can put the units back into the original order and add mine to the bottom. Should be a quick fix but I'll have to do it in the morning if needed.

If you make a copy of the units.txt and uniticon.txt before installing the scenario you can just replace these two files rather than reinstalling the whole game if things don't get fixed

dutcheese


[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 19, 1999).]

	19-09-1999 01:36									#16
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If I have the new quick start scenerio installed, will it affect LAN or interent multiplayer game play? The reason I ask is because it modifies .txt files, and if my understanding is correct, this will result in a databases out of sync error message if all players don't have the same files on their machines.

	19-09-1999 01:41									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

It might Robm.

After the unit icons thing is worked out the online game should work correctly too.

Tested fine in a PBEM game but needs testing in an online game too.

dutcheese

	19-09-1999 02:39									#18
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Dutcheese

I downloaded version 4 and still had the problems that swissy described.

	19-09-1999 02:51									#19
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Didn't work, units still off (warrior = cyber ninja). Thanks for the tip for the easy restore

	19-09-1999 09:18									#20
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For those who want to have the quickstart scenario files and also want to use the old files(assuming dutch can't get them to jive) in their continuing pbem games(or multiplayer games), there is a solution. Rename your Civilization-Call To Power folder(program files/activision/Civilization-Call To Power) to whatever u want. Reinstall the game. U now have the game on your system twice. Whichever one u want to use at any given time is the one u will want to have named Civilization-Call To Power(this is the one that will be accessed). Just rename them back and forth depending on what game you are playing.

	19-09-1999 11:51									#21
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Hi,

Posted another update. Hopefully this will work

Adjusted the units.txt and uniticons.txt back to the original order and added the new units at the bottom. You should now have the correct icon with the correct unit for games in progress.

Adjusted the script.slc for the auto unit delete function of the transport and knight to reflect the new unit order numbers.

Adjusted the readme file by adding the PBEM scenario info.

Thanks for all of your feedback!

dutcheese
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 19, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 23, 1999).]

	19-09-1999 18:49									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Is there anything I should back up before I try this?

	19-09-1999 19:16									#23
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Hi Don,

You could make a copy of the original 4 files that are being modified.

Messageicon.txt .\ctp_data\default\gamedata
strings.txt .\ctp_data\english\gamedata
uniticon.txt .\ctp_data\default\gamedata
units.txt .\ctp_data\default\gamedata

dutcheese
[This message has been edited by dutcheese (edited September 19, 1999).]

	19-09-1999 19:31									#24
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Thank you

	20-09-1999 09:04									#25
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First test complete, no interference with previously saved pbem games

I will run a test game, about 20 turns, and report back.

	20-09-1999 09:26									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

Great news Swissy! Thanks for testing.

dutcheese

	20-09-1999 07:07									#27
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Test results:

6 players on hugh map, 30 turns processed, I attached and detached AI at various times to all players.

Reccommendations:

Gigantic map is manditory.Even on my tests of the previous versions, 75% of the time the first player made contact with the second. This would allow a cheap attack on undefended settlers, sometimes a stack of three settlers could bite the dust. This is not the way to start out a multiplayer game.

Add monarchy and theocracy to the starting advances. One player came upon two ruins with free settlers/cities and received the " Your at the limits of your government" warning.

The transport may be to powerful of a unit to start the game with. The SOL would be adequate, with the extended movement. Most of the players in my test game were able to explore 20-30% of the map before the transport vanished.

The scenario gives the player alot to do in their turn. There were plenty of options for players to explore. The ancient wonders were fully playable, Age of Reason was still a number of years away. IMO, you should be able to play any type of game you want; be it Warrior King, Crusading Bishop, Philosopher Emperor, or Slaver Prince.

[This message has been edited by Swissy (edited September 19, 1999).]

	21-09-1999 02:52									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Haven't done much testing to dutcheese scenario as yet but I have had a couple of turns with and here are my initial views:

1) This scenario is definitely unplayable on anything less than a gigantic map. I made a regular map and in one turn I had built a city right in the heart of another civ before he even had his turn. Recommend lowering settler movement points?

2)IMO cities of size five in first four turns is too powerful. You can easily carve out a huge radius and claim that land as your territory. I doubt empire distance would really matter as one could easily rush buy temples. Recommend that players only get cities of size five within one or two turns... 1 turn IMO.

3) With the extended setter movements it is much too easy for 2 or 3 settlers to just wonder around and pick up all the goody huts.
Even worse you could probably save a super settler or two and use them to scout out the heart of an enemy civ in the later part of the game to find out the layout of his cities. Maybe consider either lowering movements points or killing off the super settlers after some number of turns....

4) i could swear i heard a dying sound at the start... what was that?

	22-09-1999 07:07									#29
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i can't seem to download a good copy of this file (linked on this thread). I get a .zip error everytime. anyone else have it linked? and if it is that small, please e-mail it to me. edgar3@earthlink.net
Thanks,

ED

	22-09-1999 07:09									#30
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i can't seem to download a good copy of this file (linked on this thread). I get a .zip error everytime. anyone else have it linked? and if it is that small, please e-mail it to me. edgar3@earthlink.net
Thanks,

ED