28-07-2002 09:43									#1
	If you haven't discovered this, you're missing out on some serious gold. Inflate your Upload Space

You probably know about the 4-turn minimum for tech research, and hopefully you're tweaking their tech spending to hit four turns exactly. Of course, some techs are more expensive than others, so if you just leave your tech spending at the same level all game, you're really wasting resources. (But again, you probably knew that.)

Here's the new part:

I discovered that the last turn of research for a tech usually doesn't require the same level of spending as the previous turns. Sometimes, there's a huge difference. In fact, I've often spent only 0%-10% on the last turn. This can translate to piles of gold if used consistently.

So, to summarize:

1. Pick your desired tech.
2. Adjust the tech spending slider to the minimum value that will earn you the tech in the fewest turns. (Accounting for other monetary issues, of course). In this step, I've often found that two different percentages will yield the tech in the same amount of time, even taking into acount the four turn minimum. (For example, 6 turns for Chivalry at 30% and 6 turns for Chivalry at 20%.)
3. When your on the last turn of research for a particular tech, hit F1 and experiment with the tech spending slider until it's at the minimum level which will still grant the tech in one turn. This is the most important step. I've often found I can drop tech spending 20%-30% on this last turn.

	28-07-2002 10:30									#2
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On the last turn of research -- NOT!
Usually, it is better to ALSO try adjusting it earlier than on the last turn, especially if each gold coin is valuable to you at that phase of the game.

Rough guide: say when you are 1/2, 2/3 and 3/4 complete with research.

	28-07-2002 19:48									#3
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Sometimes adjusting the slider only on the last turn will yield more gold than adjusting it every turn the tech is being researched, you just have to look at the different values and make a decision as to which will be more profitable in each situation.

	29-07-2002 04:17									#4
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Adjusting on the last turn only is risky: if the AI gets the tech while you're researching it, it can be that you have accumulated too many beakers in the 3 previous turns already, thus totally wasting even the 10% you have alocated. In this case, you can set one scientist on the tech, but even then you can waste beakers: maybe you could have tweaked the rate at the 3rd turn already. My advice: Allways tweak it on the second last turn and last turn, possibly even every single turn...

DeepO

	29-07-2002 04:48									#5
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Though I have been well aware of this feature of the game for a lng while, I find that the constent fiddling required is far too much micro-management for me.

	29-07-2002 20:34									#6
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This seems to me to be the minorest of all micromanagement. Click F1, and two or three mouse clicks tell you what you need to know.

I check this almost every turn.

	29-07-2002 21:04									#7
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Hmm, thus far I've been pretty lazy about this - I usually only check on the last turn. I wonder how much of a difference it would make if I checked more often.

-Arrian

	29-07-2002 21:06									#8
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I also check it almost every turn, since the micromanagement can be well worth it in the long run. I will also run a limited deficit per turn if I can get the tech quicker so I tend to keep a higher gold balance for this gambit.

	29-07-2002 21:30									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Hmm, thus far I've been pretty lazy about this - I usually only check on the last turn. I wonder how much of a difference it would make if I checked more often.

Arrian, if all the AIs are close to you what research is concerned, it can mean a relatively big difference. It is no exception to win a few hundred gold because you did it at the 3rd turn already, instead of waiting to the last. Certainly in the modern ages, the difference can be big... but it depends on too many variables to give you an excact idea (# of AIs, mapsize, difficulty, banks/university ratio, specific tech, etc.)

I too don't like it that we have to do this micromanagement ourselfs, but I really have found it to be one of the more rewarding one; it really gives you something in return for a small price. And, I think that it would not be easily solvable to let the game eninge do it correctly, as there would be a few exploitable things when the abundance of beakers is put into gold (One thing being that you'd never to build more then 5 banks, but had to focus on research buildings exclusively)

DeepO

	29-07-2002 21:36									#10
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As I normally do minimal (10% or 1 scientist) research in the ancient age and then shift over to maximum research in the middle ages and gain a tech lead, I don't spend a lot of time at tech parity. I'm either way behind or speeding ahead. But I'm sure I'm losing money by only checking at the end. I'll try and pay some more attention to it.

-Arrian

	29-07-2002 21:47									#11
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if you are speeding ahead, there is less problem with losing money because you only checked the final turn. I found that in some cases I was able to slide it back for 40%, where you anticipate a 30% down at most, but I think this has to do with the number of universities built in those 4 turns, or the general growth of my cities (meaning more commerce, meaning more beakers).

Just a comment that people are not making: it is not always ideal to have the slider set to the lowest possible setting, certainly not in times of war weariness. I experienced quite a few times that, as I was tweaking it to the lowest possible setting, I was given an extra turn because too many of my citizens revolted in between the turns. It is very annoying to do 5 turns of research on a tech, when the last 2 turns of it you have a big money abundance. So, when I fear that I will be hit with WW (you can generally predict it, as it is at times of extreme aggresiveness), I will put it 10% higher then strictly needed (last turn only, of course). It loses a bit of money, but you're sure it doesn't cost you any time.

DeepO

	29-07-2002 22:51									#12
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Yes, when your beaker output is significantly increasing, the initial turn estimate can be off.

So there are some cases, mainly when trying to go through the tech tree as fast as possible but still not at the 4-turn minimum, where it's best to wait until the last turn before lowering your research.

If your population is growing fast, or if you are in the process of building several libraries, universities, or research labs, or nearly completed Newton's University, Copernicus' Observatory, or the Seti, or if you expect a golden age, then you will get a research boost that might make you complete the research one turn sooner than the initial turn estimate. If you lower your reasearch slider too soon, you might miss out on the opportunity to discover the tech one turn sooner.

	30-07-2002 02:14									#13
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I can't swear the following happened, but I seem to remember it:

At one point in a game, after I was prompted to select a new tech to research, the number of turns to get the tech I selecected decreased by one after I clicked on it. Now, if that really happened, it means that research, unlike shields, "spills over" into the next thing you use it for. That means that there's no point in reducing your research to save money, unless you hit the cap.

But maybe I just imagined it.

	30-07-2002 04:05									#14
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JohnM, I think its well established that the beakers don't spill over. Regoarrarr had an awesome tech thread that covered all the details.

	30-07-2002 04:57									#15
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JohnM2433, do you use the governor to manage moods? When adjusting the tech slider, the governor is sometimes given other priorities. When he 'feels' that you need more science, he will put more specialists to scientists, when he feels you need more cash, he will put taxmen instead. I think this changing of specialists is done after you leave the F1 screen... I've seen it affecting the beaker output several times already, but it is rare that it changes the turns a tech takes, you need large cities with a lot of specialists for that.

I agree with most that the governor is not the most efficient way you have of playing, but managing all moods myself is something I find too tedious... I generally look out for where it goes wrong, and do those cities myself. The others, I can't be bothered with.

DeepO

[Edited for clarity, I seem to had forgotten a (quite important) sentence ]

Last edited by DeepO on 30-07-2002 at 05:58

	30-07-2002 09:21									#16
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If you watch the sequence closely, getting a new tech is about the first thing that happens after the AIs are finished with their turns. From what I can tell, that leaves time for the situation to change in between the time you choose a new tech (and possibly switch from the science advisor to the domestic advisor to adjust the science rate in the process) and the time the new turn starts.

Also note that if you plan to complete a lot of science improvements while researching a tech, it is best to start research relatively low and end relatively high rather than vice versa. That way your gold gets leveraged into more science. Just be careful that you don't trap yourself into a situation where you can't or cant afford to pump in enough gold to finish on schedule at the end.

One last thing worth mentioning for those who haven't tried it yet: in my experience, if you schedule the Theory of Evolution to complete the same turn you discover a new tech, you discover the tech before the ToE is finished. That means you can (for example), finish Combustion, shift to Atomic Theory, get that and Electronics from ToE, and then order research on Refining started all in one turn. Two full techs from ToE and no hiccup in the research schedule. Of course you have to be VERY careful not to finish ToE a turn early or finish the other research a turn late.

Nathan

	30-07-2002 09:45									#17
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay One last thing worth mentioning for those who haven't tried it yet: in my experience, if you schedule the Theory of Evolution to complete the same turn you discover a new tech, you discover the tech before the ToE is finished. That means you can (for example), finish Combustion, shift to Atomic Theory, get that and Electronics from ToE, and then order research on Refining started all in one turn. Two full techs from ToE and no hiccup in the research schedule. Of course you have to be VERY careful not to finish ToE a turn early or finish the other research a turn late. Nathan

Interesting! I've never had the guts to finish a tech the same turn I was due to complete the ToE -- struck me as too risky and I've never had the patience to reload and see what would happen.

Thanks for the tip - I think saving a turn on science research could be very important is certain circumstances!

Catt

	31-07-2002 17:21									#18
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I had the strange feeling beakers were spilling over into the next tech to some degree after 1.29.

	31-07-2002 17:32									#19
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I used to use this tactic quite a lot but recently I have become too lazy to check the sliders. The gold you can make though if one does check this often is definately worth it. Must discipline myself to get back into this habit again. Any extra gold you can get helps towards purchasing stuff.

	31-07-2002 19:24									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich I used to use this tactic quite a lot but recently I have become too lazy to check the sliders. The gold you can make though if one does check this often is definately worth it. Must discipline myself to get back into this habit again. Any extra gold you can get helps towards purchasing stuff.

I'm in the same boat. Have to get into the habit again cause once we have MP its on!

	04-08-2002 17:29									#21
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Hand raised as "last turn slider"