29-07-2002 12:17									#1
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In the german Civilization Webring Forum [www.civ2-forum.gamigo.de] I found an intersting thread by Yttrium. It sounds very strange. Let me translate it to you:
I'm playing the Aztecs on a world map. The Mongols just erased the Vikings, and a French settler appeared not far from my territory. He decided not to found a city - too bad terrain. When I contacted the settler, the French demanded techs - without a single city! I owed North America. One of my legions pushed the settler back so that he couldn't move any more. When I demanded tribute (I don't believe they had money before founding their first city) they declared war!
I could have destroyed him, but that seemed too barbaric, too primitive.

I now decided to send a diplo into the trouble area. I thought that it was impossible to bribe - but what's that? For only 146 gold I could destroy a whole civ.
When I bribed the settler I waited for the "French Civ destroyed by Aztecs" message - but no message came.

But after this action the French still appeared in the diplo screen and no new civ (the Germans) appeared. I'm curious what the game will still bring and what will happen with the French.

Btw I've searched the whole map (by cheating) but no French settler/city could be found.

	29-07-2002 13:53									#2
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Such things happen when an AI civ has received a starting position in the polar area or on very rough terrain, and been unable to found a capital city.

	29-07-2002 13:57									#3
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Interesting - I knew that lone Settlers could be bribed - but not that the Civ refuses to die ...
Incidentally - when a civ respawns there appears to be no rhyme nor reason for its actual nationality - I believe that vikings are every bit as likely as Germans in the above scenario...

SG[1]

	29-07-2002 14:29									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Interesting - I knew that lone Settlers could be bribed - but not that the Civ refuses to die ... Incidentally - when a civ respawns there appears to be no rhyme nor reason for its actual nationality - I believe that vikings are every bit as likely as Germans in the above scenario... SG[1]

1) At deity level, every civ has 2 settlers. If you bribe one, the other one might be wandering on, probably close to the pole (that's why the civ doesn't die).
2) When respawning, the colour matters (white civ destroyed = new white civ).

	29-07-2002 14:54									#5
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Ramses II,

interesting indeed. I haven't encountered that kind of a situation yet, but seems to be one those weaknessses in Civ II. Should be counted in the same category as the Warrior that won over an Armor, etc.

Thanks for the translation!

	29-07-2002 15:17									#6
	@Rasbelin Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

A warrior has always a chance against a vet mech inf fortified on a mountain if he attacks - but it's a very, very small chance (as I remember less than 1:500). It's a matter of probability calculation.

	29-07-2002 16:16									#7
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Yes, that's true. But as Yttrium wasn't the only one who had countered that problem, so it also has a propability. BTW I didn't say the what the Warrior was doing. It actually attacked an Armor unit with full health and destroyed it. I don't know the details as it wasn't me, but that's from a reliable source.

	30-07-2002 01:50									#8
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette 1) At deity level, every civ has 2 settlers. If you bribe one, the other one might be wandering on, probably close to the pole (that's why the civ doesn't die). 2) When respawning, the colour matters (white civ destroyed = new white civ).

I thought that every human civ had 2 settlers at deity. AI as well?

	30-07-2002 03:59									#9
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette 1) At deity level, every civ has 2 settlers.

No!

Start a game at 4000BC and go into cheat to reveal the map. You will see that some civs start with only one. It would be a better game if every AI civ started with 2 or 4 or 6 or 8 or 10.............

---------------

SG(2)

	30-07-2002 12:41									#10
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Back to the thread. Two members of the Civilization Webring Forum, Thoddy and Shaft developped th theory that the "destroyed"-message would come in an oedo year.
I find this theory very attractivie by its logic.

	30-07-2002 12:47									#11
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I must say I've never seen this, but I'll keep my eyes open. I've seen a lot of weird stuff in games of Civ2, but mostly relating to color, which I think would actually be related to a computer crash or problem than a game bug.

	01-08-2002 04:12									#12
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ramses> oedo year???

I say this sounds like a bug... or like mentioned before, the player's eye missed that one settler...

I can't say I remember something exactly like that happening to me, but I do play with that "new civ restarting"-feature off, since it causes something similar happening to me every once in a while; Settler starting on an island of only one tile, that's impossible to destroy before you have marines (since naval units cannot destroy cities, only reduce the pop to 1), and other things like that.

Plus, civil wars (in case of a fallen capital) are fun

	01-08-2002 10:49									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ade ramses> oedo year??? Settler starting on an island of only one tile, that's impossible to destroy before you have marines (since naval units cannot destroy cities, only reduce the pop to 1

marines? ...marines?
You can take any coastal city, including one tile islands, with a warrior if you have killed the defenders with your mighty ironclads (or cruisers or battleships...)

	04-08-2002 02:40									#14
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette marines? ...marines? You can take any coastal city, including one tile islands, with a warrior if you have killed the defenders with your mighty ironclads (or cruisers or battleships...)

And, just to make La Fayette's point very, very clear...in case you don't know this part as well...you will know you have killed all the defenders when the flag over the city disappears. An undefended--that is to say, completely empty--city can be entered directly from your ship and can be taken by any unit, even a settler (except for a dip-he would not have that option.)

	04-08-2002 03:06									#15
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?? Doh. I've been playing Civ2 over five years, but it has never crossed my mind to try that
It just seemed logical that the game would give the "only marines can blah blah..." -text, just like when attacking

	04-08-2002 04:04									#16
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@ Ade

You are not alone. We discover new things after many years of regular play and count ourselves lucky and blessed...for we play "THE game". It's all very...

	17-08-2002 02:39									#17
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The phenomenon described at the top of this thread has apparently been experienced by STYOM in the ToT succession game : take a look at the thread of the same name
Apparently, it didn't stop us from winning the game. No AI town and it's the end of the game, no matter if they have settlers, is this correct, I am not sure

	17-08-2002 02:46									#18
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It was a curious thing: I captured the last city for the Celts, and didn't get a message 'Celts destroyed'. The Foreign Ministry still showed an embassy for the Celts (listing their attitude and techs, but no cash and no city). So I assumed there was a NON settler running around somewhere, and sent a mass of AEGIS cruisers hunting for it.

But a turn or 2 later, the Celts disappeared from the diplomacy screen. Maybe it's a bug, maybe the Settler ran into barbs (there were a few in the area, IIRC).

	21-08-2002 04:07									#19
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So in the end this means the Frenchies are more or less unbeatable. Where is nothing you can't conquer nothing. Beware in the end they might even win the game well but their score will be more than lousy.

	22-08-2002 20:49									#20
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quote: Originally posted by La Fayette marines? ...marines? You can take any coastal city, including one tile islands, with a warrior if you have killed the defenders with your mighty ironclads (or cruisers or battleships...)

Don't feel bad Ade. I didn't realise this till around '98, a long time after starting to play the game.