30-07-2002 05:00									#1
	I think we should revisit the ban on posting PM's Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The problem I have with this is that currently Pms can be used to bully and harrass people. Usually when someone has posted a PM it is to expose this kind of intimidation.

The Pm's have become a real coward's castle. The intimidatory or harrassing PM is becoming more and more common. The current ban on posting Pm's encourages this.

Finally, by law in most western countries, if someone sends you a communication you have the right to do what you want with it. I believe this is constitutional right in the United States.

Please don't close this thread - I want a view from Mark and Dan on this.

Thanks.

Horsie.

P.S. don't send those Pm's to me. I always post them. The best way to deal with a cowardly bully is to expose them.

	30-07-2002 05:05									#2
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Erm, can the moderators view one's PMs? If not, which I assume, there is always the risk that it's actually not a PM sent to someone, but a forgery.
If it really is cowardice, then why should the recipient bother to read them? Ignore and laugh at him/her I say.

	30-07-2002 05:07									#3
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People can PM the mods about offending PMs. Threats are bannable offenses so if they are reported, you should have nothing to worry about as the people who sent them will get what they deserve.

Last edited by Apocalypse on 30-07-2002 at 05:45

	30-07-2002 05:12									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Erm, can the moderators view one's PMs? If not, which I assume, there is always the risk that it's actually not a PM sent to someone, but a forgery. If it really is cowardice, then why should the recipient bother to read them? Ignore and laugh at him/her I say.

Moderators can view PMs, 'though Ming would have you believe that he doesn't make use of that power.

	30-07-2002 05:13									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse People can PM the mods about offending PMs. Threats are bannable offenses so if they are reported, you should have nothing to worry about as the people who sent them will be what they deserve.

Hmmm... that pretty well sums it up nicely.

If you have a problem with received PM's... bring it to our attention.

PM's are PRIVATE... and as I've stated so many times, all you have to do is use a quote tag, and you can post any lie you want.

	30-07-2002 05:16									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Moderators can view PMs, 'though Ming would have you believe that he doesn't make use of that power.

Hmmm... you can ask AH. He wanted to use a PM as proof of what he was telling me once. I ASKED for his permission and received it before I went in and looked.
THEY ARE PRIVATE MESSAGES... and I respect that.

	30-07-2002 05:48									#7
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Private unsolicited messages. But thanks for not closing this thread Ming

The "send the Pm to a mod" solution might work - but didn't you say at the time you mention Ming that you had to access my Pm's to make sure they were genuine? I seem to recall you wouldn't accept a forwarded Pm as proof.

I get priceless Pm's

	30-07-2002 06:12									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I seem to recall you wouldn't accept a forwarded Pm as proof.

Well... that was from you

	30-07-2002 09:06									#9
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I'm firmly behind the current privacy policy, if the mods do obey it and they may take action if needed.

	30-07-2002 09:38									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse The "send the Pm to a mod" solution might work - but didn't you say at the time you mention Ming that you had to access my Pm's to make sure they were genuine? I seem to recall you wouldn't accept a forwarded Pm as proof.

It isn't really necessary though is it? I mean you can always ask a Mod to access your pm database and act on something you find particularly objectionable ...

Of course, that might entail going through all of ones pm's and I could see how some might find that a little ... discomforting, to say the least.


btw horse I've deleted all of those you sent me - complaining about rah's new moderatorship ...

	30-07-2002 09:57									#11
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I agree completely with Alexander's Horse

People should NOT have an expectation of privacy for message containing threats. A ban is appropriate, but so is an exposure of the threat so the bully can not get his privacy for the threat as he wanted. Normally PM should have to stay private, but I think there should be an exception for people who want to abuse the PM system for threats. I respect enforcing the site's rules, but I think you should reconsider this one.

	30-07-2002 10:16									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I agree completely with Alexander's Horse

	30-07-2002 21:36									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, Horsie, someone can even agree with you.

	30-07-2002 22:07									#14
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My stance is as follows.

Send me a threatening PM and I will post it. My resulting ban will be entirely worth it.

	30-07-2002 22:15									#15
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Good, RJ! That's good bravery.

	30-07-2002 23:58									#16
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I agree with Alexanders Horse and Black Dragon and Ron Jeremy

I also propose that people be able to block other people from sending them Private Messages. (Much like email-spam blocking)

	31-07-2002 00:13									#17
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud I agree with Alexanders Horse and Black Dragon and Ron Jeremy I also propose that people be able to block other people from sending them Private Messages. (Much like email-spam blocking)

Good idea. I also agree with Horsie. Is there a blue moon or something?

	31-07-2002 00:58									#18
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud I agree with Alexanders Horse and Black Dragon and Ron Jeremy I also propose that people be able to block other people from sending them Private Messages. (Much like email-spam blocking)

Having them on your "Ignore" list will achieve that.

	31-07-2002 01:08									#19
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I think that posting PMs should stay private. After all that is why someone sent you a PM instead of posting it on the forums.

However, in the case of PM abuses the mods should take appropriate but hard positions and punish accordingly. Bullying through PM (although I wonder who and how someone could ever bully AH ) should result in a much greater punishment than one on the normal forums. After all, people on the forums can see the inappropriate response and lose respect for the person that they cannot through PMs. So keep the ban but make the punishment much more severe so that no one will commit these PM crimes.

	31-07-2002 01:11									#20
	Re: I think we should revisit the ban on posting PM's Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Finally, by law in most western countries, if someone sends you a communication you have the right to do what you want with it. I believe this is constitutional right in the United States.

I don't think that is true. There are many instances where you are not allowed to pass on details of a communication. (Not that this is one of them mind.)

	31-07-2002 01:18									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

Is it possible to remove someone's PM priviledges? I know you can be banned form the forums and still PM Mods, but could be banned form PMing and still post in the forums.

I was only thinking about this for members who make a habit of sending inappropriate PMs. Course, maybe they shouldn't be members.

	31-07-2002 01:22									#22
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One vote to Ghengis' suggestion!

	31-07-2002 02:34									#23
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Probably more effort than its worth...

	31-07-2002 03:25									#24
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Course, maybe they shouldn't be members.

That's how I see it

	31-07-2002 04:28									#25
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I suspect those opposed to posting the bullying Pms are probably those sending them

	31-07-2002 05:17									#26
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You must have sent something awfully bad to be harping like this.
*runs to check his inbox*

	31-07-2002 06:16									#27
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*sheesh* AH you complain about everything...even when some of them are valid

	31-07-2002 07:07									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ron Jeremy My stance is as follows. Send me a threatening PM and I will post it. My resulting ban will be entirely worth it.

That is my view exactly

I will expose anyone who sends me a threatening PM and hang the consequences - though there shouldn't be any, which is my point.

I have always taken this view.

	31-07-2002 07:21									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I will expose anyone who sends me a threatening PM and hang the consequences - though there shouldn't be any, which is my point.

Gee... and if you sent it to a mod instead, the only person that would be banned is the person that sent the threat... but what the heck, if you want to get banned too... go ahead...

	31-07-2002 08:31									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

Well you would expose the person who threatened, wouldn't you? So why not let the victim just post the message themselves?

Whatever you do, I hope if you don't let the people post their threatening PMs, I hope you post exactly what you are banning them for publicly and post the PM so as to expose the bullies.