30-07-2002 16:09									#1
	Artillery on the offensive in 1.29f! Full PM-box? Change here!

Dunno if it's just my imagination, but i have seen quite a substantial increase of offensively used artillery by the AI in 1.29f. One Japanese stack consisted of 4 artillery and 4 infantry sat on my borders and caused me no-end of bother..

Can Firaxis confirm whether an increase use was introduced in 1.29f... or anyone else for that matter?

Any which way, it's made for some interesting industrial age wars.

	30-07-2002 17:04									#2
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I think it's Firaxis policy not to tell us how the AI bevaviour has changed - more fun for all if we find out by playing. Or, maybe Soren's like one of the coders I work with, and forgets what he's done!

One thing I noticed in a 1.29 war - the enemy was regularly dropping units off way behind the line by boat and sneaking up on the lesser-defended cities. Can't remember seeing that before.

	30-07-2002 17:12									#3
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[SorenJohnson_Firaxis] a number of changes have been made to the AI...

[SorenJohnson_Firaxis] a bunch of other improvements too... better allocation of citizens, some better build choice (more aggressively pursuing UN and spaceships), better worker automation...

(From the chat a couple weeks ago)


Well, I am pretty sure that Soren tweaked a bit more on the AI than he admits, I just think that the AI is much more capable now than ever before. I've seen upgrades and "smarter" movement than ever before.

So long...

	30-07-2002 17:44									#4
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If this is true is great

	30-07-2002 19:58									#5
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I haven't seen it, but I've only finished one 1.29 game, and the AI never made it to replaceable parts. I just saw the typical catapults/cannon stationed in cities.

It would be a big improvement if they used artillery more. Then again, it's probably too much to expect them to use it to its full potential as we do. So let's not get our hopes up too far.

-Arrian

	31-07-2002 01:48									#6
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I've played 4 games to completion and I have seen two big improvements to the ai.

1. I have seen offensive use of arty. for instance, in my last game the ai dropped an infantry and one arty on a mountain and used it to attack tanks stuck in the open after an attack. this is a significant improvement, but it's still overall a baby step. i haven't seen the ai (i) using arty in large stacks or (ii) arty coordinated with other attacks or especially (iii) arty used in a surprise attack on border cities along with fast movers to take a city in the first turn.

2. the ai builds much more offensive units and upgrades more often. the end result is the use of more knights/cav/tanks for offense instead of rifleman/infantry. this is a big step forward.

I always automate my workers fairly early, simply to relieve the tedium - I have not seen better worker automation.

	31-07-2002 02:06									#7
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building might have improved for offensive units and space race improvements, but i still never discovered the AI building defensive forces in larger cities and sending them to protect smaller cities. so even though infantry is defending the core region, remote colonies are defended by self-produced spearmen...

but otherwise... AI does seem even smarter.... man, i wish i could code as good as soren & co.

	31-07-2002 03:27									#8
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It may have been tweaked, but I don't think by much. Two quotes from the chat (can be found on Page 5):

[SorenJohnson_Firaxis] artillery strategy hasn't been changed too much...

[SorenJohnson_Firaxis] i think fixing the AI upgrade bug will help them build more arty though...

I have seen the AI park arty on border mountains, protected by a pair of infantry, and blast away at tile improvements and units within range (even before 1.29f). What I haven't seen, and think a lot of us would like to see, is AI using stacks of arty and bringing them along on an offensive push rather than keeping them in cities and/or using a few to attack tile improvements.

Catt

	31-07-2002 19:56									#9
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GI Josh,

I have also noticed that the AI has gone back to building offensive units again. The Iroquois built (and upgraded MWs/Knights to) enough Cavalry in my most recent game to actually worry me. I changed my research strategy, as a matter of fact (I usually bypass nationalism and beeline for replaceable parts, but this time I spent the 4 turns to get riflemen ASAP just in case Hiawatha got uppity).

-Arrian

	31-07-2002 20:12									#10
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great news

	01-08-2002 00:58									#11
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Also keep in mind the AI is integrated. While no code may have been added specifically directing the AI to execute a specific strategy, changing the costs of upgrade alone would imply a significant shift in how AI wages war.

	01-08-2002 17:02									#12
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In a recent game, I was Alexander, and I had just upgraded my defenders to Infantry. Catherine then contacted me asking for an MPP and ROP treaty. I agreed, and surprisingly, the very next turn, she has used my rail system to move in two stacks each made up of four Cannons, six Riflemen, and six Cossacks, and promptly declares war! (Has anybody had an AI use an ROP with you to invade you while you also have an MPP with them?)

Anyway, Catherine moved in and actually used the Cannons effectively, taking out the Infantry unit that I had fortified to guard my Iron supply, cutting off several roads, and even bombarding my cities before sending the Cossacks against them! The two initial stacks were all dead three turns later, but I am still quite impressed at this human-like coordination of forces!

	01-08-2002 21:44									#13
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Try giving land bombard units 1 defense point !
They might just too afraid of captivity.

	01-08-2002 23:47									#14
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I asked Soren about this, and he explicitly told me that there was no change to the AI's artillery usage... I don't really have any reasons to think he's pulling our legs, so I wonder what's up.

	02-08-2002 01:53									#15
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Maybe, they just learned on their own......

	02-08-2002 02:59									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I asked Soren about this, and he explicitly told me that there was no change to the AI's artillery usage... I don't really have any reasons to think he's pulling our legs, so I wonder what's up.

Trip, I'm not surprised if he indeed did not change anything. As I've said, the AI is integrated and change in costs of building something, or some other part of the AI could have significant, unpredited impacts elsewhere.