 |
| |
|
|
Adam Smith
|
 |
Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
|
|
Wode liang fen:
quote:
Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
(As an aside, both the Three Gorges Dam project and the Northern Irrigation project have met with nothing but doubt and criticism from western press. Whether they are genuinely flawed, or whether this reaction is the result of spin and politics, is a question I'm still pondering.) |
Best argument I have heard about Three Gorges is that the Chinese could have gotten better flood control, almost the same hydro, and a lot less risk by building a series of smaller dams along Yangtze tributaries. But then again there are the various historical and mythical attempts to control the waters.
quote:
In the countryside, officials tend to have greater freedom in governing (and greater scope for corruption) than in the cities. |
My understanding is that most of the abuses appear to be in isolated rural areas, and may involve forced abortions, tracking women's menstral cycles, and infanticide. From what I understand, many of these problems were more common when there was tighter communal control.
quote:
Recent studies show that farmers and laborers rarely if ever heed the one-child injunction, as the aid they would receive from the government does not equal the usefulness of bearing another child to aid to the workforce. |
Do you have a link or source for these studies? This would appear to be at odds with other studies which indicate that 90 percent of abandoned Chinese children (almost all girls, in southern and central rural areas) have a jeje (older sister).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
The US imports a lot of food though. Meat from Australia for McDonalds. Lots of fruits and vegatables from south of the equator so we can have the stuff out of season. There are tankers that carry orange juice to the US.
However the US is a net exporter. Especially in terms of calories.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Krayzeenbk
|
|
I know for sure that Russia currently has the capacity to feed itself (as it has done on a number of separate occasions).
However, Russia rarely is able to feed itself due to various economic problems.
So as conditions in Russia improve, the amount of imports is likely to decrease and the amount of exports is likely to increase very rapidly.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Arrian
|
 |
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:21
|
|
Alinestra,
Great post. In particular:
quote:
Now consider China. Its population has known subjugation by foreign powers, civil war between Communists and Nationalists, and finally widespread chaos caused by internal power struggles near the end of the Mao era. China is a country where the traditional viewpoint has been that a leader must be strong foremost, and fair only if possible. Traditionally, weakness has always been a far greater crime for a leader than cruelty. So long as the ruler staves off the approach of chaos and disorder, the populace is much more willing to put up with authoritarian rule than, say, the liberated West tends to. |
My father worked in international publishing and did quite a bit of business with Chinese living in Malaysia (not to mention being a history buff in general), and told me essentially the same thing. The courses I took in high school and college on China indicated the same: order and stability are paramount, because disorder and instability tends to lead to millions of people dying.
I don't have a problem with economic disincentives for having more than 1 child, especially since it's not my country. The rural abuses sound pretty bad, but I don't think you can condemn the policy because of the unsanctioned actions of some local despots... err, party functionaries.
-Arrian
|
|
| |
|
|
|
mindseye
|
 |
A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:21
|
|
Population pressure is causing many problems here, but surprisingly food doesn't seem to be one of them. Far more serious are water shortages and pollution. Besides the one-child policy, China is addressing the issue through its efforts in agricultural research. The PRC is now one of the world leaders in agricultural cloning and genetic research.
-o-
quote:
China may be about self sufficient overall but on pretty low quality. |
Really? I thought China was currently a net food exporter! In fact, I recently read that in Nanjing, milk production has reached such high levels that the market is now 100% saturated, and that fresh milk is routinely dumped in the river!
-o-
Regarding "little emperors", it's shocking to see the number of obese boys in China. I'm sure it's worse here in Shanghai, where the number of fat boys is appalling. Here, "fat" is equated with "strong", "healthy" and "priviledged". On top of AIDS and lung cancer (from cigarette smoking), in a few decades China is going to be facing widespread health problems related to male obesity (e.g. heart disease).
-o-
From what I've seen it sure seems true that country people often have larger families (it's easy to spot peasant families in places like the subway). I recently dated a country guy who was the fifth of five sons! These peasant parents selfishly attempt to insure their later years at a frightful cost to their "secret" offspring. These young people have no official ID, and are thus locked out of good jobs, housing, etc., living their lives on the margins of society.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
Its not my fact book. Its the CIAs but is more likely that you just have a difference of oppinion than it is that the CIA got it wrong. Of course they could but Israelies have there own point of view on a number of things.
So drop the other shoe.
What two things?
Like you didn't want me to ask allready.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
David Floyd
|
|
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:21
|
|
Well, you all know my feelings on the subject - the government has no place in the home in that way, and using economic force in that matter as wrong, especially because I believe that the government should have no such force to exert in the first place - they shouldn't give handouts that they can use to hold people hostage with, and should not require official IDs and the like.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Industrialised countries are already complaining about the effects of falling fertility. |
Must be the governments and they must be ignoring the complaints about traffic and crowding. Just worrying about the bills. They will have to adapt. Thats is of course only industrialized countries you are talking about.
quote:
If today's low fertility rates continue, then as the current baby boomers die, things will get drastically worse. |
Better. In which case the rates will go back up. People are having less children in industrial nations because they know the place is crowded.
quote:
If each generation's adults continue to produce not much more than half the number of children needed to replace them, McDonald calculates that the population of Italy is set to crash from 56 million now to just 8 million by 2100. Likewise Spain would lose 85 per cent of its population within the same time frame and Germany 83 per cent
|
BIG assumption. It is far more likely that fertility rates will rise again. They are down at least partly because the boomers are no longer having children. In the US their children have allready begun to have children.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Why do you assume the rate of population growth will stay constant? |
Why not? Especially since I was specificaly dealing with John Millers bald and unsupported statement that we need as many people as we can get.
quote:
It has drastically decreased over the past few decades, and I don't see any particular reason why the trend should stop. Hell, many European countries are already experiencing a negative population growth. |
Birth rates have only decreased in industrial nations and in China(China being a major reason for worldwide effects). The overall rate would be much the same without China's actions and of course the massive starvation that has occured in Africa and the deaths there from AIDS. I so love population control by starvation. Its so efficient and kind. Its the only kind the Pope finds acceptable and he influences over 1 billion people. Don't look to Europe for that influences effect. Look to South and Central America.
quote:
As countries become more developed, and their people more educated, their growth rates tend to decline. |
True at least in general. Many countries are not yet doing that. Many countries rate of population growth is what is keeping that from happening. Many have cultural reasons for having large families even as the economic situation improves.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Given the context, he was being facetious. |
Given the statement by John I was showing the distastrous consequences of unlimited growth. Reductio Ad Absurdum is not the same as being facetious.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
bogi
|
|
To add more, INDIA now has the largest population they surpassed CHINA. And if you want to see what having no decent population control plan will do just look at india in 20 years and watch them suffer even more(assuming there are no nukes).
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ethelred
|
|
quote:
1. Resources: on factbook written oil and it's 100% false.
2. Languages: on factbook written must common unoficial is English and it's false. |
Thats almost as cryptic as what you first said. Its equally unsupported.
What about oil is wrong and what is right?
What about English is wrong as I can't be sure what you intended to say?
From the site
Languages: Hebrew (official), Arabic used officially for Arab minority, English most commonly used foreign language
Languages: Hebrew (official), Arabic used officially for Arab minority, English most commonly used foreign language
Whats wrong with those? What language do YOU think is the most commonly used toungue that is foreign to Israel. Or do you think English isn't foreign?
From the site
Natural resources: timber, potash, copper ore, natural gas, phosphate rock, magnesium bromide, clays, sand, oil
You do have a bit of oil don't you? Not much but some. They also say :
It depends on imports of crude oil
So unless you can be a bit more clear I will assume you didn't quite understand all that it said.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:21.
Apolyton Time is 00:21. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
01-08-2002 19:16
I figured that someone who wrote so much on the point couldn't be facetious. 
By saying that government doesn't have a right to control the amount of children because its not natural is wrong. Its not natural for people to live past 36. Government has been helping people get healthy and by doing that they made allot people live longer, and longer enough to have kids which then caused major boom in population right after penicillin. It was never natural to have health care because by doing that we eliminated natures checks and ballances. So its right to let people have 20 kids because its natural ?
|