01-08-2002 05:25									#31
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c before th

	01-08-2002 05:26									#32
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Nothing a few daisy cutters couldn't solve, if need be.

Imran - from what I read, Iran has exactly what it needs to start producing nukes in a matter of months from the reactor's completion.

Or we could claim that Israel has absolutely no nukes

	01-08-2002 05:28									#33
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Noone ever said why Iran has less rights to possess nukes than Israel.

Sanction them both I say

	01-08-2002 05:28									#34
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Perhaps they already have the information from places (Russia probably), but you can't use that scaremongering to prevent creation of nuclear power plants that are CLEAN power. You can't say you want cleaner environment and then take away nuclear power.

Let them have their plant

	01-08-2002 05:29									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Or we could claim that Israel has absolutely no nukes

Tom Clancy would never lie about something like that.

	01-08-2002 05:31									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Noone ever said why Iran has less rights to possess nukes than Israel.

If Israel having nukes bothers you so, sanction the French. They help out any and everybody's WMD program, ex. Iraq.

	01-08-2002 05:33									#37
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The French are western, and they won WWII. Israel is just sucking up to everyone but those which it wants to annex, so it's different. France never attacked innocents in its post war history (independance wars don't count).

	01-08-2002 06:18									#38
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"Even if they have nukes, who cares?"

Because they are a hostile power and we don't want them to get stronger.

"They have two kinds of leaders You know... And majority of population stands against the fundamental ones... "

The ones that have the power are hard-line religious fundamentalist. But yes, their population stands against them so we should empower them.

"And why Iran should invade Europe? Not a chance."

Be careful about the Islamic fundamentalists- don't think we are the only ones they are after. Notice how Moussaoi and Bin Laden have both called for Spain to be returned to Moslem rule- the hard-liners want to spread Islam all over the world.

"So's France."

France is our ally.

"you have the same possibility to destroy them that they do you,"

Right, but we don't want them to have the power to destroy anything.

"
Would You start the war having massive problems in your own state and having no chance that the war would unite the nation? "

I wouldn't make any bets on the Iranian government acting rationally. This isn't the Politburo we are dealing with here, these are religious zealots who will do what they think is in the interest of serving Allah.

"Would Irand nuke Israel
risking lifes of thousands of Muslim comfaithfulls? "

They are already supporting Terrorists, especially anti-Israel Hezbollah. It is quite possible that they would send them a small nuclear device to set off in Tel Aviv.

"That's a part of wrong understanding of Muslim fundamentalism. they don't want to islamise christian
jewish or whatever nations,"

Dead wrong. They support Moslem fighter and are even still praying that Al-Andalus(Spain) be returned to the Ummah.

"You can't say you want cleaner environment and then take away nuclear power."

Sure we can. We can sacrifice the Iranian environment if it meats hurting a fundamentalist regime.

	01-08-2002 06:22									#39
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quote: We can sacrifice the Iranian environment if it meats hurting a fundamentalist regime.

Sorry, but we don't live in bubbles .

I say let them have it! Electricity = good.

	01-08-2002 08:06									#40
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I guess the bottom line is that until a country has a government and widespread national sentiment that is friendly to the US and Israel, they should be demonized, sanctioned, attacked, whatever. Yeah, that sounds reasonable.....

	01-08-2002 08:09									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi France is our ally.

Liar.

	01-08-2002 08:12									#42
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quote: The French are western, and they won WWII

I love it...

	01-08-2002 08:16									#43
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The best part is that a German, of all people, said it.

	01-08-2002 09:13									#44
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Nuclear power and nuclear warheads are technologies that are generally intertwined. If you have one, you have the other or the ability to create the other on short notice. Most nuclear-capable countries have both.

Gatekeeper

	01-08-2002 14:09									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki I guess the bottom line is that until a country has a government and widespread national sentiment that is friendly to the US and Israel, they should be demonized, sanctioned, attacked, whatever. Yeah, that sounds reasonable.....

For a neutral observer that sits comfortably on the moon, it's not reasonable.

For the US and mainly for Israel it's the most reasonable thing you can do.

	01-08-2002 14:35									#46
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Why is it that all countries are judged on basis of being threat to western world or not?

	01-08-2002 14:37									#47
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since we are the western world, we seem , for some reason, to care about us existing in the future.

	01-08-2002 14:54									#48
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Fundamentalist Iran doesn't care jack for Muslims-they use it as a great pretense for staying in power. If Iran had the nukes and the excuse, they'd nuke Israel. Alternatively, they could hold a whole nation at ransom, practically destroying it economically-which means everyone in Israel goes broke.
And if you're wondering, my reasoning is:
"Why would anyone invest in a country 2 metres away from another country which is extremely hostile AND has nukes?"
(It could be wrong though, but I doubt it).

Otherwise, Iran is most definitely a threat-remember that weapons shipment to the PA a few months back?

	01-08-2002 15:19									#49
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Last Time US acted in Iran/Persia Situation got alot worse..
oh and one-sided Poll give back oyur own Nuclear Weapons First you pack a Thread for them too u know..*geez*

	01-08-2002 16:44									#50
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"Because they are a hostile power and we don't want them to get stronger.

Israel is hostile towaards anything that isn't cordial to them. It disrespects UN. It should be puinished.

"The ones that have the power are hard-line religious fun
Wouldamentalist. But yes, their population stands against them so we should empower them.

It's a ver wrong reasoning.
If You try to "empower them" by intervening, You'll empower the fundamentalists.


"I wouldn't make any bets on the Iranian government acting rationally. This isn't the Politburo we are dealing with here, these are religious zealots who will do what they think is in the interest of serving Allah.

Maroccan and Turkish immigration is much more dangerous for Europe than Iran.
Don't underestimate fundamental politicians.
They are zealots, but they can think rational.

They are already supporting Terrorists, especially anti-Israel Hezbollah. It is quite possible that they would send them a small nuclear device to set off in Tel Aviv.

Hizb-Allah is pretty moderate organisation that wishes only to liberate entire Lebanon from Israeli occupation.
It's more political organisation than terroristic. It builds schools, hospitals... And their leader in an interview that I read said that when Shebaa or whatever was it called
shall be returned, his organisation will stop the fight.
I doubt that anything else won't grow on its land, but HizbAllah isn't all that bad.

Dead wrong. They support Moslem fighter and are even still praying that Al-Andalus(Spain) be returned to the Ummah.

Again, I see nothing wrong in that... But I see fundamentalissm as continuation of Ibn Taymiyya's
thinking.

	01-08-2002 16:51									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Israel is hostile towaards anything that isn't cordial to them. It disrespects UN. It should be puinished.

Ok. Let's assume it's correct.

But you cant do a thing about it because we already have nuclear weapons and the means to deliever them stright into Europe if someone tries to "punish" us.

Do you want the same problem to repeat with Iran?

	01-08-2002 17:26									#52
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Eli you sure are a very sad and negative person, the only solution u can think of is war...

	01-08-2002 19:11									#53
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Why dont you move to Israel for a while? Maybe then you'll understand the threat.

	01-08-2002 22:24									#54
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ttt

	01-08-2002 22:43									#55
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Eli - you ****ing blowhard. You give Israelis a bad name. If people don't agree with your stupid shithole of a country you say your government will respond with Nukes. You're worse than most Americans.

You used to be such a levelheaded poster too. Shame

	01-08-2002 22:47									#56
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quote: Originally posted by orange people don't agree with your stupid shithole of a country you say your government will respond with Nukes.

Quote please.

	01-08-2002 22:49									#57
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You're like a fly that sat in a fireplace and is suprised that
flames are all around; You caused this threat by creating your state in a place inhabited through centuries by other nation. Renaissance of Muslim fundamentalism was a reply
to Israel problem in fact and You, your state, is responsible for it.

	01-08-2002 22:53									#58
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quote: Israel is hostile towaards anything that isn't cordial to them. It disrespects UN. It should be puinished. quote: Responce from Eli: But you cant do a thing about it because we already have nuclear weapons and the means to deliever them stright into Europe if someone tries to "punish" us.

	01-08-2002 23:07									#59
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1:

quote: people don't agree with your stupid shithole of a country you say your government will respond with Nukes.

2:

quote: if someone tries to "punish" us.

Punishing Israel and not agreeing with it are two different things. We are talking about two different things.

Thank you for for your efforts to keep this discussion civil Orange and Heresson.

---------------------------



Irani missile range.

The Irani made Shihab missiles are not included, i'll search for their range.

	01-08-2002 23:16									#60
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Just because Iran is in range of a missile attack they should be attacked and invaded?...