01-08-2002 09:21									#1
	Resurrection of the Thinkers Guild Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The war is won. America's greatness has been cast into the ash heap of history, and we stand as the undisputed masters of the great jungle for hundreds of miles in every direction. As I wander the streets of Atlanta, one of the many new colonists in that outpost of a beaten empire, I ponder the future of our own nation.

Obviously the path of conquest will continue. Whether north to Germany, or west to Greece and France, we will walk down that road paved in blood and iron. However, I for one would like to see a return to the basics of our empire in addition to the bold advances forward. I propose a resurrection of the Thinkers Guild.

The new incarnation would be something along the lines of a regular turnchat-independent meeting of all interested civilians to discuss the state of affairs in the empire, and what to do next. Or whatever.

Merely thoughts.
Keep thinking.

	01-08-2002 09:52									#2
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the only thing im *thinking* about right now is war, and the french womem we shall make love to...

	01-08-2002 10:02									#3
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 the only thing im *thinking* about right now is war, and the french womem we shall make love to...

oh baby. my harem needs some refreshing.

	01-08-2002 20:46									#4
	Re: Resurrection of the Thinkers Guild Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Chandragupta The war is won. America's greatness has been cast into the ash heap of history, and we stand as the undisputed masters of the great jungle for hundreds of miles in every direction. As I wander the streets of Atlanta, one of the many new colonists in that outpost of a beaten empire, I ponder the future of our own nation. Obviously the path of conquest will continue. Whether north to Germany, or west to Greece and France, we will walk down that road paved in blood and iron. However, I for one would like to see a return to the basics of our empire in addition to the bold advances forward. I propose a resurrection of the Thinkers Guild. The new incarnation would be something along the lines of a regular turnchat-independent meeting of all interested civilians to discuss the state of affairs in the empire, and what to do next. Or whatever. Merely thoughts. Keep thinking.

Perhaps, this...

something along the lines of the War Academy

A topic is thrown out and members of the Thinker's Guild consider its impact on the civilization and ramifications it may have. As we will never dispose of war in this game, we should consider its impact on our culture, science, world image, etc., when a war is proposed. And then disuss how to counteract any negatives to assist in the war effort, keep the people at home happt, etc. Of course, in times of peace we should think about what is necessary to make our civilization stronger than our neighbors in all ways, militaristically, scientifically, culturally, and so on.

While the War Academy deals with strategic and tactical matters of excuting a war, we should deal with strategic and tactical matters in making our civilization stronger in the grand scheme of things.

Just a thought to get you on your way. Also, maybe change the name, so its not spammed because it appears to be a bastion of liberalism, something like Forum of the Bananii, Cleopatra's Think Tank, Troll Smiter's for a Stronger Apolytonia, King Ming's Prophet's of Truth (see Annales of Apolytonia).

	01-08-2002 20:53									#5
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Yes, I would love to see some organization of the thinkers guild along the lines of what the War academy and Mashie...Whatever that diplomacy thingy is. Like 'Thinkers Guild: proposal for building culture'

Or something...I think that these non political institutes are the highlite of the game right now.

Let's build these guys some libraries soon so they have a place for their talents, and can teach the people to read my paper. Though, I guess they could gather at the temple...

	01-08-2002 21:21									#6
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May I suggest a motto for the Thinkers Guild :

Think fast
Think deep
Think always

This reminds you something ?

	02-08-2002 05:47									#7
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I like the Prophets of Truth/Troll Smiters title ideas. Anyone who has a grievance or idea, throw it out for debate. For now, I'd like to know what our next wonder will be/when we will build it.

	02-08-2002 05:51									#8
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[inserts random Jack Handey quote, laughs]

Yeah, maybe it could serve as the War Academy's equivalent on the cultural/domestic front...

And we're probably gonna let our neighbors build wonders, then take 'em.

	02-08-2002 11:43									#9
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The war thinking can be translated on the home front. A civilization has to fight internally, and consistently, terrible enemies : crime, disease, ignorance, and stupidity. They must be stricken fast, hard and early exactly as the foreign enemies. In the game all this is summarized in science and culture. The guild could help in studying priorities in the cases where they are not obvious.

	02-08-2002 19:27									#10
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Given the current outlook, great wonders are going to be bypassed. In the future, though, based on how we have played thus far, we may want to consider Adam Smith's Wonder in our to increase $$, but we are in no position right now to tie a city up on a wonder, especially since soon we will have to tie one up to build the FP.

I was thinking maybe on a scheme similar to what the Machiavelli Institute is looking at on Foreign Relations. What do we think scientifically (if anything), culturally (this is important right now to prevent any encroachment on Ubergorsk, and to gear towards taking Munich), financially (again important right now, since this has carried our science research), and any other non-militaristic or diplomatic front; that will:

A. help solidify our current holdings
B. improve the quality of our Army of the Jungle
C. help decide targets in France for annexation
D. improve the land around our current towns
E. take in luxuries & resources to help increase city size, create trade opportunities, and arm our Army of The Jungle
F. items to build to expand our culture

and so on.

That is wide spread, so lets concentrate on one......any one want to pick?

	02-08-2002 22:22									#11
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all of the above sounds good

	30-01-2003 12:55									#12
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Hi guildsmen!

When I first founded the Thinkers Guild in here, it was during the
first term under pres.Trip and during the forming of our first constitution. It was mostly a philosophical initiative regarding ways to preserve a democratic system and build such a constitution, but also a place where the members could deal with other issues within our system or just talk about stuff and have fun. (which it was mostly used for) It failed to be a place of cricisism on totalitarian powerstructures, and to empower the intellectual thought as social factor within the people who forms the society.

It was not intended to degenerate to a "Improvement-when-not-at-war-builderguild" or some politicaly dependant utilitaristic mess.

To start with, it developed to contribute to the Game of Democracy itself and the principles in the game, and some funny roleplay too.
I remember to provide contructive critisism to Trip and taught him lessons on democratic principles in the beginning, when he went a bit out of line... Then the damn parties destroyed a seemingly good democratic form.
So let's see if we can manage the philosophical part of it now.
THATs what you Thinkers should concentrate on!

-Dr.Plague, founder and Ritualmeister.

	30-01-2003 16:47									#13
	Got spare money?

hi ,

so mr plague , are you going to put new live in this guild , .......

well its good to hear those antibiotics did not work on you , ......



have a nice bacteriological day

	31-01-2003 00:41									#14
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I will just meditate upon it.
Meanwhile, certain politicians in certain parties might ruin democracy. They might conquer any nation in the world, but in the process fail to achieve primary victory condition of this game: A democracy. To make it worse, the number of active participants in the game has swung a bit. My guess now, that several senate seats are empty, and principality polls do not appear much, do make the guild one important factor in rebuilding the system in a democratic fashion. The philosophers did create democracy...

	31-01-2003 00:51									#15
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Plague : glad to see the thinkers' guild back ! We really need people who take the time not to speak about in-game matters, but about the core of the Democracy game itself !
I really hope your meditations will result on practical solutions to struggle against the lack of motivation who strikes our Demo Game

	31-01-2003 01:03									#16
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...And this lack is being worst.
Some possible reasons:
The PTW demo game, the new PTW intersite game, the phase of the game we're playing now (almost modern age), the absence of real challenges, the slow new Prez... ... Not to mention the imminent war USA-Iraq (seriously, some senators are involved, in a way or another).

Any comments?

	31-01-2003 01:22									#17
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Thanks for the support Spiffor, and greetings to you Mr.prez.

Ok, never get involved in RL-wars. They just kill you.
Fight them wars out on a computer instead, and then make love to a randy girl afterwards. Good, and then she will eventually kill you, or what's left of you.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 31-01-2003 at 02:51

	31-01-2003 02:20									#18
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Partially a reason I'm tried thread-jacking the new PTW Intersite Demo game : 1) To not give any potential info away to foreign opponents, and 2) To kill of this Intersite discussion happening in the Civ3Demo threads, until it gets their own threads.

	31-01-2003 02:22									#19
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I doubt I'll be headed to the war now, unless something totally crazy happens....and just like when the PTWDEMOgame started, I'll be HERE until the end. I rarely have the patience to make it to modern times (unless I have a really good game going), and I want to see this one through... ....at least until I go off to boot camp.

	31-01-2003 02:48									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic ....at least until I go off to boot camp.

Mwuhahahaa, thats when you get drafted.

I , myself, has done mandatory conscript service for 1 year,
so I can go join the NATO or UN forces if I feel like getting good wages for picking landmines in Bosnia with Polishmen.
(btw: Polishmen are great strawberrypickers too)


Hmm, not a difficult decision. IRL, they won't let me be the general so I can wage the war, just a mere private who never gets laid, but if I stay here and play computer games, I can be as much general-warmonger as I want to, and get laid!

	31-01-2003 07:46									#21
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Nah I'm not going to get drafted. I'm already in and signed up, and the military has basically closed off people from further recruitement, or at least the Air Force has. They can't afford to pay too many more thousands of people who want to join!

Actually, I preemptively joined to AVOID the draft.

	31-01-2003 07:51									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Aro ...And this lack is being worst.

My biggest 'lack' is time... If I had time to do all my beta and mod stuff for Paradox, run my PTW DG team, plus the seemingly infinite amount of homework AND either one of these other demo games, I'd definitely be seen around. At this point, it's just too much work to get caught up with everything that's going on and make myself useful around here. Besides, there's not much point in being here with the game already won...

	31-01-2003 09:22									#23
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That's the main reason IMO. The game is already won. I use to abandon my games in the beginning of the modern era, as soon I build the UN and check my uranium reserves (if I don't have uranium, it's another story... war! :evilgrin.

	31-01-2003 20:39									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Partially a reason I'm tried thread-jacking the new PTW Intersite Demo game : 1) To not give any potential info away to foreign opponents, and 2) To kill of this Intersite discussion happening in the Civ3Demo threads, until it gets their own threads.

hi ,

you should be proud of yourself , ......



have a nice day

	31-01-2003 23:10									#25
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Allow me to speak for those for whom the game stil represents a massive learning experience - I learned all I need to know about Civ3 from the Demo game. There will be many who follow this game and learn how the much-vaunted superior strategies of the best strategists work, by seeing them almost as they happen in our game. I have managed to finally win and graduate myself a level since learning the tricks and tact from the Demo game. The game is already over? Bollocks it is.

As for me personally, I am not involved as much as I was because I have little access to Civ3 (and then only conditional). However I return in just over a week, and I look forward to getting high-speed Internet to be here almost as much as ever.

	01-02-2003 01:27									#26
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Sounds awesome MWIA! It'll be nice to have you back in action.

	01-02-2003 16:15									#27
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Allow me to speak for those for whom the game stil represents a massive learning experience - I learned all I need to know about Civ3 from the Demo game. There will be many who follow this game and learn how the much-vaunted superior strategies of the best strategists work, by seeing them almost as they happen in our game. I have managed to finally win and graduate myself a level since learning the tricks and tact from the Demo game. The game is already over? Bollocks it is. As for me personally, I am not involved as much as I was because I have little access to Civ3 (and then only conditional). However I return in just over a week, and I look forward to getting high-speed Internet to be here almost as much as ever.

hi ,

you are not the only one , .....

many people got a taste of apolyton , but the main reason is they wanted to learn , .....

its sometimes intresting to hear in a chatroom or forum about apolyton and the civ three democrazy game , ...

have a nice day

	01-02-2003 19:15									#28
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Oh, yes, the Thinker's Guild is all good.

However, we are in a war, so remember that some variant of the Department of Propoganda idea is watching you.