01-09-2002 08:00									#31
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I have often watched my own bombs drop from nothing when bombing and the bomber flew on the latitudinal axis. It is a graphics bug.

	01-09-2002 23:43									#32
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by =DrJambo= I would just like an official response from the Firaxis team as to whether this was intentional or not...! I mean, i don't mind one way or another, however, as it is... if you are fighting many civs you've no idea which civ's sub has attacked you?!

Not sure why it matters which one attacked you. You have to fight all that you are at war with anyway. If it is a new Civ, you will be advised that you are at war with them now.
I have seen this attack as well, but I was not sure what did it as the fog was close to my ship. I could not be sure it was not a bombardment from ship or air. I did not know how close I was to land.

	02-09-2002 00:33									#33
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It's just a good improvement of the subs.

	02-09-2002 03:03									#34
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More often than note ships having their HP reduced from seemingly invisible enemies have been attacked by bomber/fighter dropping their bomb.

Firaxis would have announced such upgrade to subs anyway, which they didn't.

Better believe it is a bug, or it is indeed due to bombing.

	02-09-2002 09:33									#35
	Remove this text

I've been seeing it more often now under 1.29, and in two cases confirmed that the attacking party hasn't discovered Flight - I believe that it is a sub attack, and that this is one of the many slight changes that never get mentioned in the readme's.

(When I say I've "confirmed that the attacking party . . . " I presume that the attacking party must be a civ with whom I am at war -- an "invisible attack" from a sub must surely cause a declaration of war if we're not already at war, yes?).

Catt

	02-09-2002 15:06									#36
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"Ships Being Attacked by Invisibles...?!!!"

Well perhaps they are Aliens or the enemy has some stealth-technology we don't know about

Hmm ok serious speaking I saw this also some time but at first I thought this is intentional as subs seems to be invisible (that's there job) but as you said it's really annoying not to know where he attacked and they should be visible when they strike.

	02-09-2002 17:22									#37
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

from the Readme file of the 1.29 patch:

quote: * Sped up game by removing some unit draws for non-visible units.

It could be this and/or a consecuence of this. This makes subs better, good thing.

	02-09-2002 21:10									#38
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It doesn't happen with all subs... I think it is a nuclear sub specific behaviour. It could be wanted, but it could be a simple bug as well...

DeepO

	03-09-2002 01:39									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have definitely observed this. I am pretty sure my opponents did not have nuclear subs, because they did not have the tech.

What I do not understand is how, my battleship. moving on my turn, "attacks" a square and loses to a sub, when my battleship should easily sink any sub it happens to find (I lost 3 times out of 5, so it is not the spearman beats tank syndrome)

	03-09-2002 02:01									#40
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I am pretty sure I saw this when the AI did not have tech for Nuc Sub, won't swear to it.
Don't feel bad about the sub, a transport sunk one of my carriers? Maybe a sanity check could go into the calculations. None of the transports I ever hauled in the LSD I was stationed on in the 60's could have sunk anything larger than a motor boat. I had a BB go down to one as well (all HP were intact at the time). It did not bother me, but seem very goofy. Even the CivPed calls then weak with no attack, but they open up with machine guns??

	03-09-2002 03:56									#41
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Fergus, I think what you are seeing is something else. I've noticed a couple of a times that AI ships can attack multiple subs in one turn when they are all on the same square. I haven't seen it, but it could be that your BS is doing that same thing: entering a square where there are 2 or 3 subs.

In any case, I haven't seen extraordinary results with sub vs BS, so I can't comment on it. I've played a lot with subs though, only in the Alamo scenario it happens all the time.

If people have seen it without nuclear subs, then my assumption will be wrong. But apart from the dateline problems, all of my invisible ship attacks had 'sub attacking' sounds to them... no bombers. That doesn't mean they were all nuclears, only the few times I was paying attention (spying) they were... while I haven't seen it with a sub yet.

DeepO