08-08-2002 21:01									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I agree about the fun factor. I thought that reach for the stars was going to be good and fun too. However, the demo showed me that it was not.

	09-08-2002 02:45									#32
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It is more important that they make a good and FINISHED game.

	20-08-2002 23:14									#33
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

For those who hope for third quarter or 4th qtr release, Avault posted 12/02/02 as the latest date, so it keeps slipping.

	21-08-2002 00:54									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

That seems like a nice date. I can wait!

	21-08-2002 01:30									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yeah, I have plenty to play.

	21-08-2002 10:24									#36
	Sucker! Increase Your PM Length

I think when a pre-order says it will be delayed until 1/1/03 they're really saying, "Muahahahaha! We've already got your money, so we'll sell the pre-Xmas copies to the ones who might spend their bucks elsewhere."

R4TS was "boooorrrriiinnnggg!" I couldn't even take the effort to uninstall the demo. I really hope QS hasn't run into that kind of problem because it will be nearly impossible to inject "fun" into MoO3 at this late date.

	21-08-2002 15:45									#37
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hehe in an effort to play something different I recently reinstalled R4TS. What a mistake that was. I'd forgotten just how tedious they'd managed to make one of my favourite game formats.

	21-08-2002 22:14									#38
	Put an end to popups!

I tried the demo and did not care for it either. I was foolish enought to ignore that and buy it recently. I could not get into it at all. Too bad. I have not cared for games that present a tactical combat in which you have very little impact. I can live with poor auto combat such as in SE4 as long as you can manage it better.

	21-08-2002 22:36									#39
	Tired of ads?

Well the scariest part of R4TS is how bad I thought that I wanted it to begin with. Sort of like now with MOO3

And now with all the possible delays, do we have another bust on our hands?

	22-08-2002 00:16									#40
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I can't say, but my first concern is we actually get it, then I will worry about how good it is.

	22-08-2002 00:54									#41
	Inflate your Upload Space

I would posit that two of the "early warning signs" of known, significant problems in the production version of the game (be they a lack of fun, ineffective AI, or whatever) will be 1) the absence of a beta test, and 2) the absence of a playable demo. Both of these, to me, would indicate a hesitancy on the part of the developer and/or publisher to allow problems to surface publically, thereby negatively impacting pre-orders and "early-adopter" sales.

Do you agree? Disagree? Other "early warning signs" to look out for?

	22-08-2002 01:21									#42
	Suffering from ads?

I would submit that those points are indicitive of nothing. Some games have met both criteria and stunk and some met them and were good. It may be concerning, but not indicitive.

	22-08-2002 01:40									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

vmxa1, all I said was that I considered them "early warning signs," not that they were conclusive or inerrant. Much like the early warning signs of a heart attack or certain cancers, they "raise a red flag" and prompt you to proceed with a little more caution and perhaps investigate a little more carefully.

	22-08-2002 01:48									#44
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I can't say, but my first concern is we actually get it, then I will worry about how good it is.

Oh I'm pretty certain that it will be published eventually, in some state of playability. Infro will start putting pressure on QS as time goes by, which BTW is.

	22-08-2002 02:09									#45
	Get a bigger avatar today!

DATarbell. and I agreed, it can be a concern.

	22-08-2002 21:17									#46
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by DATarbell I would posit that two of the "early warning signs" of known, significant problems in the production version of the game (be they a lack of fun, ineffective AI, or whatever) will be 1) the absence of a beta test, and 2) the absence of a playable demo.

Well, since the developers said at the beginning of the design process - 2 and half years ago - that there would be neither a Public Beta Program, nor a Demo. I guess you will just have to write this game off as a pipe dream.

	22-08-2002 21:43									#47
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think there is a big risk that Moo3 will disapoint alot of people.

	22-08-2002 21:54									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, the developers said a lot of things two and a half years ago that has changed since then.

If I was a developer--and I am--and I had a software release that had a very high visibility (kudos here to the QuickSilver developers for being as open and interactive as they have been!) and had attracted a high degree of concerns from its adoring, awaiting public (US ), then I would be looking for any and every PR opportunity that would enable me to emphatically underline all of the good things about my deliverable and, by doing so, boost sales.

While I recognize that a beta test (public or otherwise) and a demo were not planned, they both represent opportunities for the Developer and/or Publisher to generate significant, positive word-of-mouth, which they badly need to do! (To counteract a string of 'negatives': cut lists, repeated delays, the departure of Alan, et cetera.)

	22-08-2002 22:25									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

They could come to this board and select a few of the die hards here to do some outside testing and there by keep strong control of it. Announce the selection here and calm fears.

	22-08-2002 23:56									#50
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 They could come to this board and select a few of the die hards here to do some outside testing and there by keep strong control of it. Announce the selection here and calm fears.

Although that would be great for the game, it would be more likey that they'll hire testers to play it since that is the norm.

	23-08-2002 01:21									#51
	Increase Your PM Length

I was speculating that the reason they do not want to use beta test is the fear that some of the people involved would leak or give away things, that they would not have control in spite of non disclosure. I bet that some people here would be more reliable in that vein as they love the game and do not want it to fail. Maybe not.

	27-08-2002 12:45									#52
	Inflate your Upload Space

www.gonegold.com lists MOO3's release date as 9/25/02. One month from yesterday, if all goes well, although I bet it gets released MUCH later. Oh well.

	27-08-2002 13:03									#53
	Support Apolyton

Yeah, Rich is good about the dates, but not perfect. That is the long standing date from the the Publisher and Rich mention he was not confident. One can only hope it is right and the game is good.

	27-08-2002 19:46									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd www.gonegold.com lists MOO3's release date as 9/25/02. One month from yesterday, if all goes well, although I bet it gets released MUCH later. Oh well.

You'll also notice that they say that this is not likely.

They were also the source of the 1st post in this thread.

	27-08-2002 20:15									#55
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Usenet rumor has it they're shooting for an X-mas release now. Personally, I would rather have it Q2 next year then next month. I don't think Moo3 will be a good game if it comes out in September.

But QS has to put food on their employee's tables too.

	27-08-2002 22:04									#56
	Get a bigger avatar today!

When Rich talked to them they would not change the stance that it is Sept......... OK we believe that.

	27-08-2002 22:24									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I was speculating that the reason they do not want to use beta test is the fear that some of the people involved would leak or give away things, that they would not have control in spite of non disclosure. I bet that some people here would be more reliable in that vein as they love the game and do not want it to fail. Maybe not.


That's probably true, but it's a poor decision. For the cost of a game and the time to read my comments they could get 25-30 hours a week of play testing out of someone like me.

I am sure I and others here have played the Moo games far more than anyone involved in the project, and fresh eyes expierenced with the genre could only help improve the final product.

	27-08-2002 23:10									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yup. I can't imagine RFTS(2) being so horrible had they actually had anyone - whoever - playtesting the game before release.

"Oh? You don't find random planetary wipeouts you can't defend again fun?"

	27-08-2002 23:17									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I tend to agree with you guys. The longer we have to wait for this one the better it just might be.

Secondly, the "in-house" beta testers will add nothing to the game besides finding a few obvious bugs.

I imagine, without some of the heavy hitters here having their hand, the game will be full of holes very soon.

	28-08-2002 00:25									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Just look at the input they get/got from Civ players here. Too bad it was after the fact (of release).