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Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 19:46
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America currently has two cities. One is Boston, their capital, with two population and some nice and diverse land around it. The other is Chicago, which is surrounded by green hills and mountains and is located near a large deposit of spice. It is also just half a dozen tiles away from Ivory coast.
Both are in the vicinity of a river which allows them to grow beyond 6 without an aqueduct. Both are very appealing. Both are very lightly defended.
Now, I assume that the Americans have one spearman stationed at each city, two to the most. If Germany, Greece or the Aztecs decide to capture their cities, which they most likely will as I suspect they can't resist the temptation long enough (especially Germany), they would win them quickly and for a very low cost. Therefore I believe we should be the ones to capture America's last cities rather than let it fall to the hands of the AIs!
IMHO we should send out our old archer/spearmen stack to America once more and finish the job. Think about it: though we'll have borders with the Aztecs and the Greek, as well as new borders with Germany, we should be able to protect these two cities if we leave a spearman and three archers in each city (the archers can counter any AI attacks from within the city and can later be upgraded to longbow men) and perhaps reinforce Chicago with another spearman. Or just to be sure we can have one swordsman accompany the stack and fortify in one of the cities.

Allow me to analyze my proposal:
In brief: we attack Boston and Chicago with our famous archers/spearmen stack and once we win (which is the likely result) we can leave half the task force at Boston and the other half at Chicago to guard those cities from the AIs.
Pros:
* We'll make use of our archers/spearmen stack before the archers become too obsolete.
* We'll win two cities for a very low price.
* We'll acquire spice and get access to Ivory Coast.
Cons:
* We'll create new borders with Greece, Aztecs and Germany.
* We'll annoy the world for eliminating a civ (not so sure about this).

Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Note: this campaign should not replace our plans to conquer French territory, though I wouldn't recommend taking this proposal if we're going to attack Germany with the rest of our swordsmen as well.

Last edited by Shiber on 02-08-2002 at 19:53

Robber Baron is offline Robber Baron
Prince
Commonwealth of Commonsense
Jun 2002
time: 00:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 19:52
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Moving against America before our 20-turn peace treaty is up would seriously damage our reputation, critically impairing our future diplomacy and trading capability. I realize America is vulnerable right now. But IMO, we have to wait, and hope Abe survives.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 19:56
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By the time our forces reach America the 20-turn peace treaty would be over. I was counting on it.
As for Abe's chances of survival, they seem very slim. I'd bet his military force consists of no more than 2-3 spearmen. He can't possibly withstand an attack.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 19:59
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Don't forget we're still in the REX phase : Greece, Germany and America are interested in Ivory coast above all.
Plus America has at least 1 archer and 2 warriors you didn't take into account. I don't think the AI will declare war to them within the next 20 turns. We're the only ones to build swordsmen instead of settlers.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 20:11
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You are right, I completely forgot about the archer and the two warriors.
The rest of your arguments are convincing as well. I'm dropping the proposal.

UnOrthOdOx is offline UnOrthOdOx
Emperor
Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 20:13
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Don't under estimate the American army. He has at least two archers, likely more now that he fears us. We saw those archers right when we made peace. If you have an old save, look it up 925 or so. Let America get a few more cities placed as holders for us. Maybe we could persuade abe to settle further North? Just to save our place.

Epistax is offline Epistax

Prince
of Bananas
May 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 21:18
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I agree that we should attack America ASAP-- but not before P! We must wait out the turns. Incense valley will prove most important (as well as the land around it), and anyone but the Americans owning it would be a terrible loss to us. I do not think we should let up on the French effort (not persia! grr) for a quick city grab, but instead upgrade some of our many defending warriors to tackle america, replacing them with real defense, spearmen.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 02-08-2002 22:45
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America will have 1, if not 2 more cities before we attack it again, which would mean a slighty longer war. We need to wait and see after France and the reactions of all our neighbors to our new power before we start makig any more plans.

Epistax is offline Epistax

Prince
of Bananas
May 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 00:01
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I'd be content with burning a path to incense valley. I don't care about fringe cities of no concern. The Germans or Greece will pick those off in due course (and seem to enjoy razing).

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
He has at least two archers, likely more now that he fears us.


I know. I started watching the game as a lurker when you began the war.

Last edited by Shiber on 03-08-2002 at 03:33

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 01:02
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Incense Valley is a must. Not just for the incense, but because it will also give us a prime staging ground for any offensives into Greece.

Last edited by Kuciwalker on 03-08-2002 at 05:50

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
Emperor
flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 01:31 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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I doubt they will fall, unless it is by our own hand.

adaMada is offline adaMada
King
"The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
Mar 2000
time: 00:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 03:19
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Depends if any of the other civs take their heads out of REX for a second and build any offensive military units... I wouldn't count on them being around much longer, but I think we can probably wait until the twenty turns are over.

-- adaMada

Last edited by adaMada on 03-08-2002 at 03:39

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 03:32
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Uber says the Germans are/were fighting with the Persians. He saw a German unit fight a Persian unit, take damage but win.
I don't think the Germans would attack America at this point though. They'll be too busy with the Persians. Even if their war is over (which is unlikely since they're both aggressive civs and AFAIK such civs would rather see the other party propose a peace treaty) they are still not ready for another offensive.

adaMada is offline adaMada
King
"The Iron" Stadium, Ubergorsk, Apolytonia (C3DG)
Mar 2000
time: 00:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 03:42
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Okay, so it seems very unlikely that the Germans will attack America -- yet, what if they did? How could we react? If anyone has a copy of the save game up, do we have any military units in the area that could be used should we need to declare war on America fast to get a peace of the pie before there's none left? How much would it hurt our other plans to leave an archer or two up there? Even understanding that we don't think the Germans will attack America, it's better to have some plans we can reference back to should that happen...

-- adaMada

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 04:04
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According to plans, in 9 turns from now we'll have 10 warriors who will be upgraded to swordsmen, which means they'll be operational in 10 turns from now. If enough people agree, we could send two swordsmen to capture Incense Valley.

Robber Baron is offline Robber Baron
Prince
Commonwealth of Commonsense
Jun 2002
time: 00:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 04:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiber
According to plans, in 9 turns from now we'll have 10 warriors who will be upgraded to swordsmen, which means they'll be operational in 10 turns from now. If enough people agree, we could send two swordsmen to capture Incense Valley.


Are we sure that city has enough culture to survive and not be auto-razed?

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 04:23
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We can't lose land to Sidon due to cultural expansion unless they have 100 or more culture points.
Ubergorsk is defended by a spearman and a warrior.
A Persian or German attack on Ubergorsk doesn't seem likely at the moment: both are most likely engaged in war with each other, neither of them really hates us and they're still expanding with settlers rather than with military units. Besides, they all have vulnerable cities like Ubergorsk in the area so they probably fear our counterattack.
In case we are attacked we can always try to sign a military alliance with either Persia, Germany or England (depends on the attacker).

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 04:37
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quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
Incense Valley is a must. Not just for the incest...


Some peculiar things go on in that valley.

As for the Persian-German war... the German unit Uber saw taking damage could have been attacked by a Barb. We don't know because the German unit survived so we never saw the attacker advance to be recognized.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 05:49
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Oops, that was a typo. It's fixed now.

panag is offline panag
Emperor
MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 03-08-2002 20:14 Visit panag's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiber
By the time our forces reach America the 20-turn peace treaty would be over. I was counting on it.
As for Abe's chances of survival, they seem very slim. I'd bet his military force consists of no more than 2-3 spearmen. He can't possibly withstand an attack.


hi ,

just dont underestimate him !

have a nice day

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
Emperor
flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 04-08-2002 00:40 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither


Some peculiar things go on in that valley.

As for the Persian-German war... the German unit Uber saw taking damage could have been attacked by a Barb. We don't know because the German unit survived so we never saw the attacker advance to be recognized.


exactly. we cant know anything, but the persia warrior was in german territory, and we saw more walking there as we scouted around.

seemed a bit odd to me

kring is offline kring
King
Wichita,KS,USA
Dec 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 04-08-2002 01:55 Visit kring's homepage!
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It makes more sense to finish off America, then go after France.

America will fall, if not by us, then by someone else. I think the question is when and by whom will America fall. I don't advocate warmongering. In this instance, America is a goner, and we may as well do our best to prevent others, esp. aggressive neighbors, from benefiting to our detriment.

Since we don't know if Germany and Persia are/were fighting, we need to find out.

Go into the Foreign Advisor screen and see if they are at war.

To assUme they are at war, without checking the Foreign Advisor (that's one of its functions), is dangerous.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:21
  Old Post 04-08-2002 02:06
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We have an embassy with Persia, and no, Persia and Germany are not at war. Germany is still in Rex, and besides, they have a RoP with Abe, so unless they are looking to have evryone hate them, they won't go to war with Abe till that is done, though I am unsure of when that will be. I am surprised that the americans have not made a new city yet, and the greeks are moving fast to cut them off. As for chicago, right now I say that it would autoraze if we took it.

The A.I., especially Germany and Greece, both have plenty of open land to fill up, so I don't see them going to war yet. I think the English and Persians might go at it at some point, since they are really close and intertwined, but toherwise, we are the war starters in this continent.

panag is offline panag
Emperor
MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 04-08-2002 19:51 Visit panag's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
We have an embassy with Persia, and no, Persia and Germany are not at war. Germany is still in Rex, and besides, they have a RoP with Abe, so unless they are looking to have evryone hate them, they won't go to war with Abe till that is done, though I am unsure of when that will be. I am surprised that the americans have not made a new city yet, and the greeks are moving fast to cut them off. As for chicago, right now I say that it would autoraze if we took it.

The A.I., especially Germany and Greece, both have plenty of open land to fill up, so I don't see them going to war yet. I think the English and Persians might go at it at some point, since they are really close and intertwined, but toherwise, we are the war starters in this continent.


hi ,

, but persia shall exploit its pact , ones it feels that abe is getting weaker , .....

have a nice day

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 05-08-2002 01:03
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Why wouldn't the Germans want everyone to hate them? They do in my games.

OPD is offline OPD
King
Birmingham UK
Jun 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 05-08-2002 01:28
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes Germany does have maximum aggression and just for the record France has minimum aggression levels

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 05-08-2002 01:41
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That's realistic hehe.

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