03-08-2002 00:30									#1
	Is this right? Put an end to popups!

After several e-mails going back and forth between myself and Infogrames helpline, it has been determined that there is a scratch or some other problem with my Civ3 cd.
I inquired about replacement cd and was told to
"Go buy the game again"
I am truly disappointed. I have never had any need to replace a cd of any game before, but I always assumed they game companies had some sort of replacemt policy in place for situations like this.
Apparently not ...
And I will be damned if I am going to go out and buy another copy of civ3.
Btw, some of the help info I got from them was to uninstall and then re install the game, and as I thought, the cd was not readable. So I no longer can just go out and buy the expansion pack and use that cd for the .exe.
Anyway, is this the norm for this kind of situation?
If so, I can see why people illegally burn their cds and use cracks.

	03-08-2002 00:37									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

It may be "right" in the sense that Infogrames' warranty only covers defects from production (not later damage to an otherwise normal product).

It is, however, astonishingly poor customer relations. I would have expected them to offer a replacement if you sent the scratched disc back (so they knew you had a legal copy). Haven't ever been in your situation, but it certainly strikes me as a surprising response from a consumer products distributor.

Catt

	03-08-2002 00:39									#3
	Suffering from ads?

That kind of response sounds unusual. I would suspect that either (1) you were talking to someone who was having a bad day, or (2) you were being aggressive/antagonistic with the person, and they got so upset at you they chose to be "unprofessional".

I recommend you try again, keep your cool if that was the problem, and hope you end up talking to someone else.

	03-08-2002 01:00									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The following is record of every e-mail that went between us.
As follows

You suggested I get in touch with the UK division of the help line after
several e-mails between us. This was their response. I have also included
the e-mails that we have exchanged.
Please let me know if nothing can be done. If this is the case, then I am
truly disappointed.
But I do ask that you respond either way.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
Hello Chris,

I am very sorry, but we don't have any replacement copies of Civ3 here.
Unfortunately Infogrames UK do not have a disc replacement policy and once
our 5 copies of the game have been sent out we rarely get any more. Once
again i apologise but i think you will have to buy a new copy of the game



james muir
Infogrames UK Helpline
21 Castle Street
Castlefield
Manchester
M3 4SW

Tel: 0161 827 8060

for additional support and downloads, try...

<http://www.uk.infogrames.com/>



----- Original Message -----
From: "Tech5 (HE)"
To: "'Chris and Sheryl'"
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:40 AM
Subject: RE: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :


> Chris,
>
> You may want to contact our UK departmetns to see if you can't get a
> replacment.
>
> It sounds like your CD is scratched or damaged.
>
> Infogrames U.K.
> http://www.uk.infogrames.com
>
> Telephone: (0) 161 827 8060 Mon-Fri, 10:00am - 5:30pm
> Fax: (0) 161 827 8091
> Email: helpline@uk.infogrames.com
>
> If you require any further assistance, include all previous E-mails in
your
> response.
>
> James L
> North America Technical Support Rep
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris and Sheryl [mailto:venge@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:59 PM
> To: Tech5 (HE)
> Subject: Re: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
>
>
> James,
>
> Ok, I have washed the cd as per instructed. I then tried to run the game,
> with no luck, still the same problem. So I deleted the game off of my
hard
> drive, as you suggested, and have tried to re-install. The problem is, it
> still will not read the Civ3 cd, so now I no longer have the game on my
> harddrive.
> Is there anything that can be done?
> Thanks,
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tech5 (HE)"
> To: "'Chris and Sheryl'"
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 5:31 AM
> Subject: RE: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
>
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > Many times, this kind of problem is caused by a dirty or damaged Disk.
> > Inspect the shiny underside of the CD and locate any fingerprints,
> scratches
> > or smudges. Any one of these or a combination could result in the error
> you
> > are receiving.
> >
> > The best way to resolve this is to clean the CD. You can do this by
> washing
> > the CD under luke-warm water. Use a liquid detergent that is
non-abrasive
> > and use your fingers to spread the soap evenly across the shiny
underside.
> > To dry the CD use a soft cotton lint-free towel that will not create any
> > further scratches. Paper towels are highly discouraged due to the
> abrasive
> > nature of the fabric.
> >
> > When drying, make sure that you wipe from the inner-circle towards the
> > outer-circle. Wipe against the grain, so you don't leave streaks the
same
> > way that the laser reads.
> >
> > Once you have finished, try the game again.
> >
> > If the problem persist, you may need to uninstall the game completely
and
> > reinstall it once more.
> >
> > If you require any further assistance, include all previous E-mails in
> your
> > response.
> >
> > James L
> > North America Technical Support Rep
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris and Sheryl [mailto:venge@xtra.co.nz]
> > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 9:17 PM
> > To: Tech5 (HE)
> > Subject: Re: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
> >
> >
> > Still having the same problem,
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tech5 (HE)"
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 10:44 AM
> > Subject: RE: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
> >
> >
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > Try disabling all third-party applications running in the background.
> > >
> > > To do this, hold down the CTRL+ALT+DEL keys, all at the same time.
This
> > > will bring up the Close Program dialog box. In here, you will see a
> > number
> > > of items. The only ones that Windows needs to run are Systray and
> > Explorer.
> > > All other programs here are extraneous, and are not necessary for
> Windows
> > to
> > > function.
> > >
> > > Since they may be causing conflicts or memory problems, you will want
to
> > > turn them off. Don't worry - nothing we do here is permanent;
> everything
> > > here will return when you restart the computer. Select a program
> (besides
> > > Explorer and Systray), and then click the End Task button at the
bottom
> of
> > > this window. If another window pops up saying that the program is not
> > > responding, click End Task on this window as well. This will drop you
> out
> > > to the desktop. Press CTRL+ALT+DEL again, and repeat as necessary
until
> > > only Explorer and Systray are left.
> > >
> > > Once this process is complete, try running the program again, and see
> how
> > it
> > > works.
> > >
> > > If you require any further assistance, include all previous E-mails in
> > your
> > > response.
> > >
> > > James L
> > > North America Technical Support Rep
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: venge@xtra.co.nz [mailto:venge@xtra.co.nz]
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 11:12 PM
> > > To: tech1@us.infogrames.com
> > > Subject: Civilization III - PC : INTERNATIONAL :
> > >
> > >
> > > CUSTOMER INFORMATION
> > > Name : Chris Haines
> > > Email : venge@xtra.co.nz
> > > Phone : 0116494330225
> > > Birthday : 09/15/1963
> > > Country : NEW ZEALAND
> > >
> > > PURCHASE INFORMATION
> > > Date : 01/05/2002
> > > Location : Auckland
> > >
> > > SYSTEM INFORMATION
> > > OS : WIN_ME
> > > Browser : Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Win 9x
> 4.90;
> > > Q312461)
> > > IP Address : 203.96.111.202:22251
> > >
> > > ISSUE DESCRIPTION
> > > First off, I did not see any International Help site for New Zealand,
so
> I
> > > choose this one.
> > >
> > > Ok, here is the problem. I have been running Civ3 for quite some time
> and
> > > only recently had this problem. When I put the Civ3 CD in my CD drive
> and
> > > try to start the prog with my desktop icon, it does not start up all
the
> > > time. At first this was an intermitant problem, but now the game is
> > > unplayable.
> > > Sometimes it even acts as if the cd is not in the drive and asks me
for
> > it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
>

	03-08-2002 01:18									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You've been Civ3-less for SIX WEEKS??!!

Poor fellow.

Firaxis to the emergency room, stat.

(help this guy out, por favor)

	03-08-2002 01:23									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Maybe someone from his neck of the woods can help this guy out eh????
I am willing to, but I'm in the U.S.
Would take a while for the mail to get it there.

P.S.
I sent you an e-mail Venge

	03-08-2002 01:26									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Ya, no Civ3 for a while, scary isn't it?
To make matters worse, I am the most active moderator at another Civ3 forum, and the amount of input I have is less and less due to my lack of experience with the latest patches and such.

	03-08-2002 01:28									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Wise words, Jaybe. I would recommend exactly the same. I can't believe that an Infogrames representative would dare to suggest such an outrageous solution.

One more suggestion: you may (calmly!) point out that - because of the copy protection scheme used - you were unable to create a backup copy (which you are granted by law, even in New Zealand, I believe) that would help you avoid this problem. And that it would only be fair from Infogrames to replace the scratched CD, if you return the no longer usable original to them.

The crucial thing is to stay calm and not to attack the person on the other end...

Edit: Oops... the server had some problems, so my post got posted only after almost an hour. It is now missing the point, I know. What about talking back to the Infogrames US? After all, they gave you an advice that did not work...

	03-08-2002 01:36									#9
	Put an end to popups!

But after having read the e-mails that went between Infrogrames and myself, would you say I did not remain calm?
I just re-read it (a few posts up) and honestly feel I did not respond incorrectly at all.
I must be missing something here, feel free to point it out.

	03-08-2002 02:09									#10
	Put an end to popups!

Oops for me too, my previous post was put up after your edit made it ...
lol
I did re e-mail the US helpline with the UK reponse attached. That is the e-mail I posted here, above.

	03-08-2002 02:20									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

DO NOT BUY A NEW COPY. This is a common CivIII (in fact all Firaxis games CDs) problem. I have had this problem with CivIII and SMAX. Apparently Firaxis uses sub par CDs (or maybe its their coding or copy protection) that has major problems with some CD/DVD software and hardware.

You can especially expect this problem with DVD players by (IIRC) Creative Labs.

If you are using a DVD player or a CDR/W that came with self exectuting software, you have to hunt down the software apps and kill them before the game (although I note you apparently already tried this). Then try multiple times to get the game to start by ejecting the CD, and putting it in again until the autuplay pops up. Don't try to start the game via the desktop shortcut, the CD needs to be ejected and repositioned to do this.

I had this problem for a long time, and still have to eject the CD 3-4 times on average before the game starts up.

I would also recommend hunting down the latest ME CD/DVD-ROM driver for your hardware.

Edit: The reason I recommend trying to get this copy to work instead of buying a new one is that I did just that for SMAX. Guess what, same problem. Even after I got a new computer, completely different brand of CD-ROM Drive (actually a DVD Drive), both CDs, as well as the CivIII CD, experience this problem. Strangely enough, non of my other CDs (game or music) experience this problem despite some fairly major scratches on some, except for one that is scratched beyond belief and now used as a coaster.

	03-08-2002 03:58									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

That answer from Infogrames sux. BTW Fitz, it's the publishers that handle copy protection and media production.

A couple solutions Venge. Contact MrWhereItsAt or Grrr!
Both are users of this forum and both are in New Zealand. One of them may very well be able to post a burned copy to you so that you can install.

Another is that small scratches on CDs can be repaired. There are various formulations for this. One that I am familiar with is called Wipe Out. I doubt that is available where you are, but the larger computer outlets would have something similar. You use a dab on a cloth or a cue tip, rub it on the scratch and often the defect can be 'read around'.

In either case, get a back up. Where I am there are innumerable people who have burners and software capable of copying the Civ3 CD. The reason why it is legal for you to make a back up (in most areas) is very evident from your situation.

	03-08-2002 04:58									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

OK. I just had to do the following with my old Novell 5.1 installation disk at work. If your brave enough give it a try. It worked for me and the server is up and running.

First wash your cd with dish soap and cool water. Rinse well. Don't let it dry. Then you need some toothpaste (the white kind, not a gel). Using a small amount rub the toothpaste into the disk with your finger. Only rub along the radius. (That is, from the center hole to the edge.) Don't use a circular motion, you must use a straight line. Don't use too much pressure, but use a 'normal' pressure. Do this at least for any part of the disk where you had seen previous scratches. You may need to do the whole disk. Rinse very well and dry with the softest cloth you can find. Again only wiping from the center out to the edge.

You may have to repeat this process a couple of times.

The reason this works: If you have a disk that is slightly damaged with scratches tangent to the circular track, this may cause the CD to skip from one track to another. Now using the toothpaste (or any commercial product) puts scratches along the radius that the laser reader will jump over rather than follow the wrong path.


All comercial products for fixing CDs work on the same exact principle. You can try those too.

OK, you can call me nuts now, but it does work.

	03-08-2002 05:12									#14
	Got spare money?

Completely remove the game from your system making sure all program folders and shortcuts have been removed. Then copy the CD to a folder on your hard drive and install the game from there. Before you even start the game, download and install the 1.29f patch. If the game will not install from the hard drive, in all probability your CD is indeed damaged. If the CD will not copy to your hard drive, you have an OS, drive falure or memory issue. If this solves your problem, enjoy your game.

	03-08-2002 05:25									#15
	Remove this text

I can't believe there are companies this unconcerned with customer service. By the simple laws of market-economics, it's time for Infogrames to go out of business and be replaced by a competent company.

	03-08-2002 08:49									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

IMHO, this is completely wrong. It is in the EULA that you do not purchase the software, only a license to use the software. This means that the data on the CD is owned by Infogrames. Since you already purchased your license, you are entitled to continue using your license. The actual CD and associated data is worthless; you have paid your money to be able to install the game and use it so Infogrames should send you a replacement.

I don't know if you can copy the contents over to your HD and install from there, but if you can you should do it and look on the Net for the cracked .exe.

	03-08-2002 09:53									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: From the CivIII EULA LIMITED LICENSE: You are entitled to download or install, and operate this Software solely for your own personal use, but may not sell or transfer reproductions of the Software or Documentation to other parties in any way. You may download or install, and operate one copy of the Software on a single terminal connected to a single computer. You may not network the Software or otherwise use it on more than one computer or computer terminal at the same time.

It never once says that you are liscenced to use the CD, but simply to install and run the actual "Software." Could that mean that if Firaxis refuses you the CD, that you could charge them for inhibiting your use of the liscence? I don't know, I'm not a lawyer and I don't read much into the law. But, you never know.

	03-08-2002 13:27									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by SwitchMoO It never once says that you are liscenced to use the CD, but simply to install and run the actual "Software." Could that mean that if Firaxis refuses you the CD, that you could charge them for inhibiting your use of the liscence? I don't know, I'm not a lawyer and I don't read much into the law. But, you never know.

That is essentially a license to use the software. Edit: notice the "LIMITED LICENSE" heading.

Get this though, the EULA entitles you to download a warez version if you bought it. AFAICT, since they state that you can download the software to run it, that is within the licence agreement. However, applying a cracked .exe is modifying it so that would not be allowed, as well as causing the warez version to be distributed to anyone else (of course). The people that produced the warez version obviously violate the EULA but an end user that bought the CD wouldn't be.

OTHER RESTRICTIONS: You may not cause or permit the disclosure, copying, renting, licensing, sublicensing, leasing, dissemination or other distribution of the Software or the Documentation by any means or in any form, without the prior written consent of Infogrames Interactive. You may not modify, enhance, supplement, create derivative work from, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise reduce the Software to human readable form.

On a slightly offtopic note, I find it funny that links to cracked .exes are strictly forbidden on this site yet third party utilities like CivCopy, not to mention the hacked editor, clearly violate the EULA and are actually downloadable from here.

	04-08-2002 00:47									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

The fan support for Civ3 puts the official support for the game to shame. After posting my dilema, offers for sending copies and original versions of Civ3 came my way.
I would just like to say thanks to everyone, and I wish you people could have a say in how Infrogrames and the like should run their public relations. If they responded even 1/4 as supportive as you guys then they would have a PR to be proud of.
*Edit*Having re read this post I realize I should make a clarification. The support staff at Infrogrames were great and tried their best to help out, it was the policy makers at Infromgrames which apparently tied their hands so they could not give the support I thought they would.

Last edited by Venge on 04-08-2002 at 01:02

	04-08-2002 06:44									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I don;t know about the rest of you, but I just sent an email to Firaxis asking them to send Venge a new disk:

"There's a player named Venge at Apolyton who has an awful tale of woe regarding a scratched disk... please help, as Venge has been Civ-less for over 6 weeks.

Thanks."

I had to hunt around a little, but I think this is the best way to communicate with them:

http://www.firaxis.com/contact_gamefeedback.cfm

	04-08-2002 08:16									#21
	Re: Is this right? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Venge After several e-mails going back and forth between myself and Infogrames helpline, it has been determined that there is a scratch or some other problem with my Civ3 cd. I inquired about replacement cd and was told to "Go buy the game again" I am truly disappointed. I have never had any need to replace a cd of any game before, but I always assumed they game companies had some sort of replacemt policy in place for situations like this. Apparently not ... And I will be damned if I am going to go out and buy another copy of civ3. Btw, some of the help info I got from them was to uninstall and then re install the game, and as I thought, the cd was not readable. So I no longer can just go out and buy the expansion pack and use that cd for the .exe. Anyway, is this the norm for this kind of situation? If so, I can see why people illegally burn their cds and use cracks.

Haha, Infogrames support horror stories. I hate their support. I dont even call them now. They suck sooo bad....some of them dont even give effort and sometimes their so outrageous...they tell me what my computer is, if im an admin or not, even my intelligence......Anyway, yeah that sucks. But I'm sure people will begin helping out.

I mean, it looks like they already have. So, have fun!

	04-08-2002 08:59									#22
	Suffering from ads?

all i know is the BLIZZARD had no problem givign me new Diablo II CDs when i sent mine back with a complaint...

	04-08-2002 08:59									#23
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

My God.

Even I never thought Infogrames was THIS arrogant and contemptuous of the consumer. But I guess they proved that by getting Firaxis to release a beta game last November at least eight months before it was even close to being ready. Give the man a disc if he sends the other back. Sheeez.

	04-08-2002 09:04									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Coracle My God. Even I never thought Infogrames was THIS arrogant and contemptuous of the consumer. But I guess they proved that by getting Firaxis to release a beta game last November at least eight months before it was even close to being ready. Give the man a disc if he sends the other back. Sheeez.

I hate to do this but...I agree. I mean, the only time I experienced this bad of support was with Sierra (Whom said "If ya lost the code, your gonna have to buy the game again."....basically the same thing here.)

But oh well. We have the great and mighty Apolyton. Who needs Infogrames support?

	04-08-2002 10:39									#25
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Absolutely ridiculous