12-08-2002 12:28									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Ethelred That would look better anyway but I think the idea was to use one of the earliest massive rifle armed units. Of course Sid being into the Civil War could have a bit to do with it as well.

That might also explain his fascination with Ironclads.

Granted, they were a great idea that revolutionized naval warfare and rang the death knell for the age of wood and sail, but they were obsolete almost as soon as they were built. The Monitor and Merrimack slugged it out in 1862. Only ten years later the French were building the first iron and steel battleships, and in 1876 the British were building all-steel battleships.

Plus, the movement rate for Ironclads in the game is a bit off. Six knots was about the best an Ironclad could do, and that was in calm waters. Frigates could travel at least that fast, but could do up to 10 with good wind. Frankly, it wasn’t very difficult for sailing ships to avoid Ironclads if they wanted to. Also, Ironclads had serious troubles in rough waters; the Monitor sank due to high seas, not enemy action. Personally, in CivIII I think Ironclads should be restricted to costal waters only.

*notices entire post is off-topic*

I think you're right, though, about the riflemen. They wanted to capture the period between the age of musket and the era of machine-gun warfare. I think the current unit does that pretty well, although setting aside game balance, I can't see why muskets and cavalry require saltpeter while riflemen don't. Still gotta have gunpowder to make the bullets go real fast, folks; they just don't hurt that much when you throw 'em by hand....

	12-08-2002 12:53									#62
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Six knots was about the best an Ironclad could do, and that was in calm waters. Frigates could travel at least that fast, but could do up to 10 with good wind. Frankly, it wasn’t very difficult for sailing ships to avoid Ironclads if they wanted to.

The Monitor and the Virginia were the first US ironclads and the Monitor was really an iron ship not merely a cladded wooden ship. However the Brits and French were allready experimenting with iron cladding and were turning wooden ships into iron clads at that point. Many of the early ironclads WERE sailing ships because of this, with auxilary steam for when the wind was uncooperative. The added weight did slow them down but they were usually actually seaworth. The Virginia and the Monitor were intended for inland water and sheltered coastal water. The Monitor in particular was mainly for attacking shore batteries along rivers and for fighting the Virginia.

As soon as explosive shot was perfected all those early iron clads became hopelessly outmoded so their era was indeed quite short.

	12-08-2002 20:56									#63
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm not sure I understand the interest in another "modern" (1970->today) inf unit. Whats the point? The real difference between such a unit and a WWII or WWI unit i.e. anti-tank capabilities and different tactics cant be included because we cant define unit weaknesses wrt other types of units.

	14-08-2002 14:57									#64
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Ethelred The Monitor and the Virginia were the first US ironclads and the Monitor was really an iron ship not merely a cladded wooden ship. However the Brits and French were allready experimenting with iron cladding and were turning wooden ships into iron clads at that point. Many of the early ironclads WERE sailing ships because of this, with auxilary steam for when the wind was uncooperative. The added weight did slow them down but they were usually actually seaworth. The Virginia and the Monitor were intended for inland water and sheltered coastal water. The Monitor in particular was mainly for attacking shore batteries along rivers and for fighting the Virginia. As soon as explosive shot was perfected all those early iron clads became hopelessly outmoded so their era was indeed quite short.

hi ,

we should have the option that such ships sink , whatever the tech that we have in lets say sea , ....
most of the early ships where lost because of some problems on water , ...ones they where a bit far out , blub - blub , ....

then came the more modern ones , and they are nowhere to be found in the game , agreed they can only add so-many units , ....but , .....

we should also see more infantry units that have specific abilities , like AT infantry , they should get a bonus when they go after a tank , ...
stuff like that would be welcome

have a nice day

	24-08-2002 14:11									#65
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Yes, the Sea trade/Ocean trade flags shouldn't allow all ships to cross sea/ocean safely, but that's another story.

	24-08-2002 20:41									#66
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think it is a little silly to go from an ironclad to a very modern looking destroyer. Perhaps there should be something representing approx. WWI navies; something along the lines of a dreadnought. Link it with industrialization.

	25-08-2002 00:33									#67
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I thought of adding a Torpedo Boat, and postponing the Destroyer to Radio.

Hmm... maybe we should talk about Ironclads in another thread. This is for the so-called Infantry unit. In Empire Earth (where there are lots of infantry units) the WWI infantryman is called "Doughboy" (referring to the American soldiers). Could be a good name, but it is a little America-centered.

By the way, Wormwood, have you tasted wormwood liquor?

	25-08-2002 00:39									#68
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Optimizer I thought of adding a Torpedo Boat, and postponing the Destroyer to Radio. Hmm... maybe we should talk about Ironclads in another thread. This is for the so-called Infantry unit. In Empire Earth (where there are lots of infantry units) the WWI infantryman is called "Doughboy" (referring to the American soldiers). Could be a good name, but it is a little America-centered. By the way, Wormwood, have you tasted wormwood liquor?

Definetely, feel free to start a new thread.

No, I never have tasted that! I imagine it would it to be kind of bitter. What's it taste like and is it difficult to find. (Could I go to a real liquor store and find it?)

	25-08-2002 04:07									#69
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Wormwood I think it is a little silly to go from an ironclad to a very modern looking destroyer. Perhaps there should be something representing approx. WWI navies; something along the lines of a dreadnought. Link it with industrialization.

It was suggested in another thread that Iron Clads are, ability wise, much more suggestive of dreadnought era craft.