05-08-2002 04:24									#1
	Expansion Pack: Cities and Leaders, part3: What I still need. Inflate your Upload Space

Russia (Leaders)
Zulu (Leaders)
Japan (Leaders)
India (Leaders)


Every Civ should have at least 50 cities and 5 leaders.

Last edited by Wernazuma III on 10-08-2002 at 01:22

	05-08-2002 04:56									#2
	Remove this text

Chinese cities:

Chang An (Xian)
Luo Yang
Jian Kang (Nanking)
Bei Jing
Kai Feng
Hang Zhou
Ye Cheng
Xian Yang
An Yang
Cheng Du

Xiang Yang
Jiang Ling
Nan Yang
Gong Yang
Chao Ge
Ju Lu
Han Dan
Shang Dang
Zheng Zhou
Tai Yuan

Wu Chang
Chang Sha
Xu Chang
Zheng Zhou
Han Zhong
Tai Yuan
Da Tong
Tian Shui
Shou Chun
Su Zhou

Yang Zhou
Xu Zhou
Ji Nan
Zhen Ding
Liao Yang
Yu Men
Guang Zhou
Quan Zhou
Kun Min
Gui Yang

Nan Ning
Chong Qing
Lan Zhou
Wu Wei
Yin Chuan
Tian Jin
Chang Chun
Da Lian
Qing Dao
Shang Hai

The first 10 cities had been capital cities of China or Chinese dynasties at various time. The last 10 cities are cities founded quite recently.

	05-08-2002 05:47									#3
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Chinese Leaders: (titles in parenthesis)
Ji Chang (Zhou Wu Wang)
Sun Tzu
Ying Zheng (Shi Huang Di)
Liu Che (Han Wu Di)
Wei Qing
Cao Cao
Zhuge Liang
Li Shimin (Tang Tai Zong)
Li Jin
Zhao Kuangyin (Song Tai Zu)
Yue Fei
Zhu Yuangzhang (Ming Tai Zu)
Xuan Ye (Emperor Kangxi)
Sun Yat-Tsen
Deng Xiaoping

	05-08-2002 06:03									#4
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Russian Cities:
Moskva
St Petersburg
Kiev
Novgorod
Smolensk
Tsaritsyn/Volgograd/Stalingrad
Minsk
Pskov
Vitebsk
Mogilev

Borodino
Kharkov
Kursk
Belgorod
Voronezh
Djnepropetrovsk
Saratov
Samara
Kazan
Nizhny Novgorod/Gorky

Tula
Kaluga
Vologda
Astrakhan
Tyumen
Tobolsk
Surgut
Orsk
Orenburg
Omsk

Novosibirsk
Semipalatinsk
Tomsk
Krasnoyarsk
Irkutsk
Yakutsk
Khabarovsk
Vladivostok
Petropavlovsk
Archangelsk

Murmansk
Ekaterinburg
Perm
Ufa
Karaganda
Rostov
Sevastopol
Yaroslavl
Odessa
Kaliningrad

Kaliningrad is kind murky because it's Koenigsberg, too.

	06-08-2002 02:44									#5
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Thanks, I've changed the Chinese leaders and will do it for the Russians. As I've said, I already got chinese cities.

Compare your list with mine, then suggest changes.Beijing
Shanghai
Kanton
Nanking
Hongkong
Xian
Tsingtao
Xinjian
Taipeh
Chengdu
Hangzhou
Tientsin
Tatung
Macao
Fushun
Sian
Anyang
Shantung
Taiyuan
Mukden
Kuangchuan
Wuhan
Yang
Liaojang
Chinan
Lanzhou
Kaifeng
Kunming
Kueilin
Shengjang
Changchun
Anshan
Ningsia
Ningpo
Paoting
Tainan
Yünnan
Loyang
Chiangling
Suzhou
Zhangjiakou
Qingdao
Taichung
Wuxi
Fuzhou
Chiao
Gejiu
Wei
Harbin
Xuzhou
Yangchow
Luda
Baotou
Chongqing
Kaohsiung
Guiyang
Xining
Hohhot
Yumen
Haikou


BTW, I've updated my homepage:
http://de.geocities.com/wernazuma/extrapack.htm

Check out the BIC-file. It's crippled and not playable, but good to take a look into it.

	06-08-2002 03:44									#6
	Remove this text

Firaxis seems to have lots of trouble with Chinese city names. They used several province names, were quite inconsistent with pronounciations, and created many duplicates.

Compare your list with mine, then suggest changes.
Chang An: If you talk about the capital of the Chinese civilization, no other city will ever beat Chang An, which is what Xian was previously called.
Luo Yang: This city is second in importance in Chinese history.
Beijing - Bei Jing
Shanghai - Shang Hai
Kanton - Guang Zhou
Nanking - I would call it Jian Kang, or its modern version Nan Jing.
Hongkong - Hong Kong
Xian - It's replaced by Chang An.
Tsingtao - Qing Dao
Xinjian - There is no such city or province in China
Taipeh - OK
Chengdu = Cheng Du
Hangzhou - Hang Zhou
Tientsin - Tian Jin
Tatung - Da Tong
Macao - Throw out this city, it has very little importance in China.
Fushun - Fu Shun
Sian - Sian is Xian is Chang An.
Anyang - An Yang was the capital of the first dynasty in China
Shantung - This is a province name.
Taiyuan - Tai Yuan
Mukden - It's Shen Yang. Mukden is probably used by the Japanese and would insult any Chinese gamer.
Kuangchuan - There is no such city or province in China.
Wuhan - I would use Wu Chang here.
Yang - Yang Zhou
Liaojang - Liao Yang
Chinan - Ji Nan
Lanzhou - Lan Zhou
Kaifeng - Kai Feng. You may want to place it higher in the list as it's a stragetically important city in China.
Kunming - Kun Min
Kueilin - Gui Ling
Shengjang - It's the same as Mukden and Shen Yang
Changchun - Chang Chun
Anshan - An Shan is hardly a major town in China.
Ningsia - Again, a province name. Yin Chuan is the provincial capital.
Ningpo - Ning Bo
Paoting - Bao Ding
Tainan - Tai Nan
Yünnan - Maybe it means Yunnan, a province?
Loyang - same as Luo Yang
Chiangling - Jiang Ling
Suzhou - Su Zhou
Zhangjiakou - Zhang Jia Kou
Qingdao - already listed
Taichung - OK
Wuxi - Wu Xi
Fuzhou - Fu Zhou
Chiao - Qiao is only a county, but birthplace of the GL Cao Cao.
Gejiu - ????
Wei - Ye Cheng
Harbin - OK
Xuzhou - Xu Zhou
Yangchow - same as Yang Zhou
Luda - Da Lian
Baotou - OK
Chongqing - Chong Qing
Kaohsiung - Gao Xiong
Guiyang - Gui Yang
Xining - OK
Hohhot - OK
Yumen - OK
Haikou - OK

I would add the following more cities:
Nan Yang
Xu Chang
Chao Ge
Gong Yang
Tian Shui
Zhen Ding

	06-08-2002 04:18									#7
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Here's a list of 10 Iroquois leaders

Canaqueese (Mohawk) ca. 1630-?
Garangula (Onondaga) ca. 1640-?
Canassatego (Seneca) ?-1750
King Hendrick (Mohawk) ?-1755
Skenandoah (Oneida) 1706-1816
Handsome Lake (Seneca) 1735-1815
Cornplanter (Seneca) 1736-1836
Joseph Brant (Mohawk) 1742-1807
Sagoyewatha (Seneca) 1758-1830
Ely Parker (Seneca) 1828-1895

	06-08-2002 21:22									#8
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I changed the leaders of the Iroquois.
I'll change the chinese list later in the evening.

	06-08-2002 21:24									#9
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lord merciless: Is the seperate writing of the chinese names really much more accurate? I ask, because Beijing et al. are already so familiar.

	06-08-2002 21:56									#10
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Yes, because a Chinese city usually have 2 characters, and I think each of them should be represented by an English word.

But if you feel comfortable writing the other way, that's fine, too.

	06-08-2002 23:23									#11
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Yes, I fell more comfortable
How comes that you know so much about Chinese history?

Anyway, here's the revised list:

Beijing
Changan
Loyang
Shanghai
Guangzhou
Jiankang
Hongkong
Tsingtao
Kaifeng
Taipeh
Chengdu
Hangzhou
Tientsin
Tatung
Fushun
Anyang
Taiyuan
Shenjang
Wuchang
Yangzhou
Liaojang
Jinan
Lanzhou
Kunmin
Guiling
Changchun
Ningbo
Baoding
Tainan
Jiangling
Suzhou
Zhangjiakou
Taichung
Wuxi
Fuzhou
Ye Chang
Harbin
Xuzhou
Dalian
Baotou
Chongqing
Kaohsiung
Guiyang
Xining
Hohhot
Yumen
Haikou
Nanyang
Xuchang
Chaoge
Gong yang
Tianshui
Zhending

	06-08-2002 23:54									#12
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Oh, I forgot to say: I let Beijing in first place, because it's already the most important city for quite some time (so it comes close to Chang An) and it's the more popularly known, I think people want to have something familiar as capital, so as long as it's no bull****, I tend to make it so.


Anyway, only a few things left (I did most tasks myself already).

However, we lack the Zulu cities. Only 16 in the original list! I can't find much, can you?

	09-08-2002 04:19									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Volodymyr- ancient Russian leader... of Moscow.
and the regulars:
Leon Trotsky
Iosif Stalin
Lenin
Kruschev
Ivan the Terrible
Catherine the Great

-
The Zulu were tribespeople... they didn't build much in the way of cities... You could just include some of the English trade cities in the list, if you like, since they were in their territory

	09-08-2002 04:49									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

More Russian GLs:
Ivan III
Peter the Great
Bagration
Brusilov
Tuchachevski
Shukov
Konev

	09-08-2002 08:55									#15
	Got spare money?

For India (by which we mean, presumably, leaders of civilizations originating/predominantly in the Indian sub-continent):

Akbar the Great

Indira Gandhi

Jawaharlal Nehru

Mohammad Ali Jinnah

The Rani of Jaipur

Tippu Sultan

Asoka

Kanishka

Chandragupta

Cities:

Harappa

Mohenjo-Daro

Sigirya

Bamiyan

Taxila

Delhi/New Delhi

Fatehpur Sikri

Karachi

Islamabad

Lahore

Amritsar

Kandy

Trincomalee

Anuradhapura

Calcutta

Bombay/Mumbai

Madras

Khajuraho

Cochin

Bangalore

Travancore

Hyderabad

Ahmedabad

Sarnath

Mamallapuram

Chandigarh

Srinagar

Darjeeling

Dhaka

Cox's Bazaar

Varanasi/Benares

Madura

Konarak

Goa

Lucknow

Puna/Poona

Rawalpindi

Simla

Jaipur

Jodhpur

Calicut

Pondicherry

Thimpu

Imphal

Cuttak

Patna

Allahabad

Agra

Jabalpur

Nagpur

Vishakhapatnam

Baroda

Quetta

Peshawar

Yanaon

That should be enough to be going on with, I think...

	09-08-2002 21:45									#16
	Remove this text

I've changed the Russian leaders.
I'll dive into the Indian list later, especially the city list, for I have to compare it with mine.

But one instant question: Would you add Aqbar to the Mongols or to the Indians. Adding him to the Indians seems to me like adding Genghis or Kublai to the Chinese (oops, FIRAXIS did that! )

	10-08-2002 00:06									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III But one instant question: Would you add Aqbar to the Mongols or to the Indians. Adding him to the Indians seems to me like adding Genghis or Kublai to the Chinese (oops, FIRAXIS did that! )

Since PTW does have a Mongol civ, it's prudent to reserve those leaders for Mongols. I think the Mongol civ should also include any leader from Il-Khan, Golden Horde, Tamerlane's Empire, Mogul Empire, and Dsungaria.

A potential list:
Subotai
Tchagatai
Ogodei
Mengke
Kublai
Bayan
Haidu
Koko Timur
Tamerlane
Babur
Aqbar
Galdan Rabtan

	10-08-2002 01:20									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I've got the Mongols in anyway and don't care for PTW at the moment.

I've gathered a Zulu city list. I got no clue though, if there's some mudholes among those "cities"...

Zimbabwe
Ulundi
Bapedi
Hlobane
Isandhlwana
Intombe
Empangeni
Mpondo
Ngome
Swazi
Tugela
Umtata
Umfolozi
Ibabanago
Isipezi
Amatikulu
Zunguin
Nongoma
Pongola
Kambula
Babanango
Nquthu
Jozini
Ndondakusaka
Tshaneni
Colenso
Mlunzini
Talana
Eshowe
Magudu
Gingindlovu
Hluhluwe
Ndundulu
Ngwelezana
Mtubatuba
Nseleni
Mkuze
Tehingwe
Nyezane
Majuba
Mpila
Mbazwana
Laings Nek
Gqokli Hill
Masinda
Nkiya
Bashibis
Mselani
Mpumalanga

	10-08-2002 01:47									#19
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Schlest was a great Ukrainian communist... You could put him under the Russian Leaders

	10-08-2002 02:27									#20
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I kind of don't get your , nor do I know any Schlest.

	10-08-2002 03:28									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III But one instant question: Would you add Aqbar to the Mongols or to the Indians. Adding him to the Indians seems to me like adding Genghis or Kublai to the Chinese (oops, FIRAXIS did that! )

Well not quite. It would be like describing the Prince Regent, George IV of Great Britain, as German, simply because his father happened to be.

Akbar was born in Umarkot (now in Pakistan) to Hamida- the first Mogul ruler to be born in the Indian sub-continent. You have to ask yourself what makes Akbar a Mongol rather than an Indian leader? Three generations removed from the first Mogul (not Mongol) invaders, it's a bit of a stretch to lump him in with Ogodai and Bortei.

Given his contributions to Indian culture and tolerance of religions originating in India, in my mind Akbar is Indian.

	13-08-2002 01:35									#22
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Zhukov should be in the Russia list of leaders.

You might want to include Metacomet a.k.a. King Philip in the Iriquois leader list.

	13-08-2002 01:58									#23
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He is there as "Shukov"

	13-08-2002 02:44									#24
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quote: Originally posted by GoodFella Zhukov should be in the Russia list of leaders. You might want to include Metacomet a.k.a. King Philip in the Iriquois leader list.

Metacomet was Algonquin, not Iroquois.

	14-08-2002 13:00									#25
	Chinese city listing Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hi guys,

I just thought I'd clear up the Chinese city listing, as there are still a few errors. (I hope you don't mind).

Here is my list, marking changes you might want to make:

Beijing
*Chang'an (you need the apostrophe)
*Luoyang (spelling error)
Shanghai
Guangzhou
*Jiankang (if you wanted to call it Nanjing no one would complain)
*Hong Kong (traditionally these are two separate words in English)
*Qingdao (not Tsingtao)
Kaifeng
*Taipei (not generally spelled as Taipeh)
Chengdu
Hangzhou
*Tianjin (not Tientsin)
*Datong (not Tatung)
Fushun
Anyang
Taiyuan
*Shenyang (spelling error)
Wuchang
Yangzhou
*Liaoyang (spelling error)
Jinan
Lanzhou
*Kunming (spelling error, I'm 100% sure it's not Kunmin)
*Guilin (I've been there, it's Guilin not Guiling)
Changchun
Ningbo
Baoding
Tainan
Jiangling
Suzhou
Zhangjiakou
Taichung
Wuxi
*Fuzhou (see below)
*Yechang (as far as I can tell, Yechang is the old name for Fuzhou so one of these should be removed)
Harbin
Xuzhou
Dalian
Baotou
Chongqing
Kaohsiung
Guiyang
Xining
Hohhot
Yumen
Haikou
Nanyang
Xuchang
Chaoge
* (I deleted Gongyang because I couldn't find anything about it - though maybe someone else could enlighten me)
Tianshui
Zhending

Some other additions I thought would be nice:

Ürümqi
Changsha
Jilin
Anshan
Nanning
Shenzhen

Hopefully this is useful and not troublesome for you, Wernazuma III!

	14-08-2002 13:43									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

Gongyang was a small enclave (a so-called flower house IIRC, one of several) within the British Concession of Shanghai in the late 19th century.
There is also some holy script of that name (after Confucius), as well as a Korean king.

	14-08-2002 13:56									#27
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Rathenn: It's not roublesome at all, but I guess we have to wait for our Chinese expert Lord Merciless as I, frankly, got no clue about Chinese cities. Hope he'll look in here soon.

	18-08-2002 20:33									#28
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Zulu: Minor complaint. i don't know much bout their cities but Great Zimbabwe was a Monomotapan / Rozwi city and capital. They were enemies of the Zulu but I don't think the Zulu ever took the city.

I wouldn't worry too much. the only reason i changed it in my gane is because I added the Monomotapans. For African civs I usually crack open the atlas and pull out similar sounding city and town names from the area the empire covered. Resources on African civs are so rare.

China: Hong Kong isn't a city but an area. The major cities are Xiang Gang (Victoria) and Kowloon.

Xinjiang: in my atlas is a small town on the Fen river south of Taituan and n/e of Xi'an.

India(Pakistan and Bangladesh) city list (sorted by metro city size). Where two names appear, common English usage is first. Historical importance was not considered in this list.

Delhi / Dilli
Bombay / Mumbai
Calcutta / Kolkata
Karachi
Dhaka
Madras / Chennai
Bangalore / Bengaluru
Hyderabad / Haidarabad
Lahore
Ahmadabad
Pune
Surat
Kanpur
Rawalpindi
Chittagong / Chattagam
Jaipur
Lucknow / Lacknau
Nagpur
Faisalabad
Gujranwala
Patna
Indore
Vadadora
Bhopal
Coimbatore / Koyampattur
Bhubaneshwar / Bhubaneswar
Ludhiana
Cochin / Kochi
Vishakhapatnam / Visakhapatnam
Varanasi
Agra
Multan
Madurai
Meerut / Mirat
Khulna
Nashik
Jabalpur
Jamshedpur
Asansol
Peshawar
Dhanbad
Allahabad
Amritsar
Vijayawada
Rajkot
Srinagar
Bhilai
Aurangabad
Thiruvananthapuram
Calicut / Kozhikkod
Sholapur
Gwalior
Ranchi
Jodhpur
Tiruchchirappalli
Guwahati
Chandigarh
Hubli
Maisuru
Jalandhar

There's 60 for you

Oh and i agree Akbar should be a great Indian leader.

	18-08-2002 22:28									#29
	Got spare money?

I'll change the English spelling to the Indian one. Beside that, I already got my list ready.

Compare it with yours, then tell me, what I should really change.Delhi
Mumbai
Peshawar
Madras
Bangalore
Vijayanagar
Calcutta
Carachi
Hyderabad
Pataliputra
Lahore
Ahmadabad
Harappa
Chittagong
Colhapur
Nagpur
Mohenjo-Daro
Rawalpindi
Jaipur
Multan
Allahabad
Kanpur
Taxila
Quilon
Poona
Dhaca
Barisal
Agra
Bengal
Patna
Calicut
Varanasi
Islamabad
Srinagar
Jabalpur
Howrah
Madurai
Goa
Cochin
Amravati
Punjab
Baghalpur
Chandernagore
Pondicherry
Colombo
Tinphal
Kalinjar
Balasore
Jaffna
Masulipatam
Diu
Mahe
Surat
Lucknow
Chitur
Tamluk
Yanaon
Mangalore
Chaul
Bahavalpur
Nizampatam
Daman
Culna
CariCai
Benares

	18-08-2002 22:47									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Selanne China: Hong Kong isn't a city but an area. The major cities are Xiang Gang (Victoria) and Kowloon.

Hong Kong = Xiang Gang
Hong Kong is Cantonese, Xiang Gang is Mandarin. They are exactly the same thing (kinda like Rome/Roma for example).
"Victoria" is the name for the section of the city on Hong Kong island. Victoria and Kowloon are usually conceived (by the Chinese) to be sections of the same city, not different cities.

quote: Xinjiang: in my atlas is a small town on the Fen river south of Taituan and n/e of Xi'an.

Xinjiang is the Chinese name for East Turkestan, the largest province of China.
If you want to ask me which "xinjiang" the developers were referring to, I'd bet on the large province, not on a tiny town.

Also:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=52331