06-08-2002 01:37									#1
	Debate on the rules Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Here is a poll to determine the rules we want for the game.
I didn't include the victory conditions as I think we will enable them all. I also didn't include Ironman and accelerated start.
In my opinion, we should enable blind research as the ideological debate will be funniest. The con of this rule is that the science advisor will be quite useless.
What do you think ?

	06-08-2002 01:43									#2
	Re: Debate on the rules Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Faction Respawn.

/Edit: No offense, but this poll is quite useless. I mean, what if you dont want the thing to be enabled? There is no "No Cooperative Victory" etc option, so...is anything with a vote something we enable?

	06-08-2002 01:44									#3
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if we choose blind research we have to look at what the science minister can do besides research maybe change name and melt it with something else?

	06-08-2002 01:46									#4
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i think the commissioner makes the rules and he can use this as a refer....or do we use standerd rules? (that is with blind research)

	06-08-2002 01:47									#5
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword i think the commissioner makes the rules and he can use this as a refer....or do we use standerd rules? (that is with blind research)

Well whats the point of a democracy game when all we do is elect a commissioner? In the civ3 demo game, we poll for the choices.

I think we should do a repoll with "NO" options.

Its a demo game for the people, by the people! (Sorry, couldnt resist )

	06-08-2002 01:48									#6
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There shouldn't have been a problem, Tass. The poll tells you how many ppl voted (it should), and you can see what proportion of the total voted for each option. But I think ppl are voting as if this was a one-option poll, since there are only a few choices with more than one vote. We perhaps need to do this again now...

	06-08-2002 01:49									#7
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ok but then again we have to make a poll with standerd rules or custom rules but I do not understand it real well what U mean so please make the poll.

	06-08-2002 01:49									#8
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I don't think this poll should be official, it is lonly for debating of the rules we want for this game. Did you see that it is a multiple choices poll Tassadar ?

	06-08-2002 01:50									#9
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt There shouldn't have been a problem, Tass. The poll tells you how many ppl voted (it should), and you can see what proportion of the total voted for each option

So we only enable what gets the majority? What if we want Blind Research AND Cooperative Victory? I agre, I think we should do this again.

	06-08-2002 01:51									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Juliennew I don't think this poll should be official, it is lonly for debating of the rules we want for this game. Did you see that it is a multiple choices poll Tassadar ?

Yes I did, but what if someone does not want cooperative victory? They can't vote for a "NO COOPERATIVE VICTORY", and since its almost inventiable that everything will get at least one vote.....how many votes will be required in order to enable it?



(Just a small smiley to lighten up the mood )

	06-08-2002 01:52									#11
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aha no i get the point with the NO part

	06-08-2002 01:52									#12
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Correction to my above post: it isn't going to work like I thought it would.... for some reason I voted for a few options, and my one vote for many options turns into 5 votes. I'm sure in another multi-option poll I saw (namely civman's Bill of Rights from the Civ3 game) that you could tell exactly how many ppl voted in total.

Looks like we DO have to start again. Sorry Juliennew, them's the breaks.

EDIT: Hey WAIT! It says 4 voters now!

	06-08-2002 01:53									#13
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IMO instead of rushing with polling we should debate issues and then try to reach a consensus of what to poll.

	06-08-2002 01:56									#14
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quote: I think we should do a repoll with "NO" options.

If you don't vote for a rule, I think it means "no". And we can see if a rule is popular or not by the percentage of the people who voted for it.
I also did it because I don't know the standard rules and never play with it.

	06-08-2002 01:59									#15
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you could say you need 2/3 of the votes for a role thats 66.667%or 50% right down the middle just a idea

	06-08-2002 02:01									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Juliennew If you don't vote for a rule, I think it means "no".

Ok, lets make a scenario. First we put a colony....er, wrong scenario.

49 percent of everyone in the AC democracy game vote FOR Cooperative Victory because they like it Well, 51 percent of the people dont like it. Because there is no "no" option, that 51 percent is never heard and, well, cooperative victory passes (probably, depending if Im understanding everything correctly)

quote: And we can see if a rule is popular or not by the percentage of the people who voted for it.

See above.

quote: you could say you need 2/3 of the votes for a role thats 66.667%or 50% right down the middle just a idea

That would be OK. It would please me But it was never clearly defined how something "passes" or is "rejected", so....How we gonna do it?

	06-08-2002 02:01									#17
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quote: Looks like we DO have to start again. Sorry Juliennew, them's the breaks.

No problems

quote: No offense, but this poll is quite useless.

Don't worry, no offense here. It is a democratic game and the debate you exposed your opinion in a debate

	06-08-2002 02:02									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Juliennew No problems Don't worry, no offense here. It is a democratic game and the debate you exposed your opinion in a debate

Yeah, dont worry: I've created bad polls too.

	06-08-2002 02:06									#19
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well i am for the 2/3 votes needed troughout the game......something to put in the constitution maybe?

	06-08-2002 02:38									#20
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I would like to make a firm point AGAINST blind research.

With blind research you have four options to discuss about. One will be chosen as the faction policy. But surprise surprise, when the tech is discovered it isn't of the chosen field. Nobody happy. As everyone knows, blind research is quite broken.

Put against that unblind research. Most of the time you have more than four techs to choose from. Hence more discussion than with blind research. And besides just deciding the next tech to research, one can also pick a longterm research path. For example, there could be a group in favour of bee-lining towards D:AP asap, while another favours going to Environmental Economics as soon as possible. As the path towards both these techs have prerequisites of other fields (eg for BUILD EnvEcon you have to research the EXPLORE tech EcoEng), such discussions are impossible with blind research.

	06-08-2002 02:46									#21
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we should unable blind research 'cos we want a science advisor.

	06-08-2002 02:54									#22
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I would strongly suggest against cooperative victory, and anything else liable to make the game less interesting, or needlessly easy.

	06-08-2002 02:55									#23
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i like co-op, look first, steal tech when conquer base, unity scatter, Unity survey (so you CAN see the map) and hate blind research tech stag, and restart factions.

	06-08-2002 03:09									#24
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I'd say NO tech when conquer base. That would unbalance the game too much in the favor of The Hive, Spartans and Believers...

And with Blind Research it's more realistic, if you like it that way (like I do). Although Maniac has a point there, too...

	06-08-2002 03:11									#25
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if you get no tech when conquer a base, whats the reward for war?

	06-08-2002 03:14									#26
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quote: Originally posted by TKG if you get no tech when conquer a base, whats the reward for war?

Bases, projects, the knowledge of eliminating another faction and torturing their leader for information......the works

	06-08-2002 03:17									#27
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I agree. A tech for conquering a base?
If we threw a rock at a flying saucer and it crashed, you think we could build more? pft

	06-08-2002 03:19									#28
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Maniac has a good point against blind research.

quote: I'd say NO tech when conquer base. That would unbalance the game too much in the favor of The Hive, Spartans and Believers...

I'd say yes especially because these three factions aren't very good at research and don't usually are friendly in diplomatic relations. This rule is their only way to catch up in tech. I also voted against cooperation victory as it would perhaps shorter the game.

	06-08-2002 03:21									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Juliennew Maniac has a good point against blind research. I'd say yes especially because these three factions aren't very good at research and don't usually are friendly in diplomatic relations. This rule is their only way to catch up in tech. I also voted against cooperation victory as it would perhaps shorter the game.

But then again, considering they do like to invade EVERYONE.....Would it not put them in the position to become the most powerful, technologicallya advanced empire just because they conquered bases?

Sorry, but I say no to get tech when conquer base. I mean, if we enable that....Whats the point of researching anything? Lets let the computer do it. Or let Miriam/Yang/Santiago conquer everyone and then conquer them. The game becomes much more boring.

	06-08-2002 03:28									#30
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If the techsteal rule is off, just build a probe team. Some extra work for the Intelligence Director.