17-09-2002 04:02									#31
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IMHO the optimum time to have a GA is when you don't need it because at that point you simply bury your competition in Science and Wealth.

And at the end you are so far advanced that your technologically superior units conquer everyone.

Seriously, though I would like to finish the Persian homeland and have it and Uber Island settled with every city having a library and around 3-5 pop per city.

I think a GA at that point would be tremendous.

	19-09-2002 23:57									#32
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I'm bringing this issue back up because it ought to be discussed further.

I had a rather startling realization during a discussion with adaMada about the GA issue, and I think it's something that most of us have ignored.

If we don't trigger a GA by constructing a wonder, then a GA must occur during a war.

We must attack and defeat and enemy unit with our WC, and that can only occur while we're at war with someone.

There's no way we're going to start a war just to get a GA at the ideal time. We should decide to trigger the GA during the tail end of our Persian campaign or during the much assumed America war II. After those two conflicts are over, I see a time of extensive peace and internal development in our future.

The building of our FP would also greatly benefit from a GA occuring at the time of construction.

Let's not just slate a GA for "sometime far off in the future." We need to plan for it and use it. I agree that we should have most (if not all) of our cities built before the GA begins, but how long can we afford to wait on this? How long can we afford to put off our Forbidden Palace construction?

Let's discuss this idea more and see if we can't agree on a suitable and specific timeframe for our GA during one of the two wars I mentioned above.

--Togas

	20-09-2002 00:26									#33
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Thats something i had thought about, once the american war begins we attack an archer somewhere with our chariots to trigger it. Then we can upgrade the rest to knights so we kill 2 birds with one stone.
Aggie

	20-09-2002 00:56									#34
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IMHO, we need to settle two or three cities in Uber Isle before our GA. There's a discussion about build the FP in our island.

	20-09-2002 02:24									#35
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hi ,

we should first stabilize our situation , before we have it , ....

have a nice day

	20-09-2002 04:06									#36
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If we want a GA during our war with Persia, we'll need to build a road through the jungle. We need to get a UU to the sight of the fighting and they won't go through jungle. But the workers are elsewhere and would take some time to move them. We can also load them on a gally and come from the sea. But we need to do it soon, or Aggie will have won the war before it's too late.

E_T

	20-09-2002 04:18									#37
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I think its overly optimistic to assume after Persia and America war #2 that there won't be anymore wars The question is will there be one when we need one.

Also I think we could still trigger it from wonders in the future, we just have to get some combination of industrious and religious. Assuming only building and not capturing counts:
Religious Remaining
-------------------------
Sistine Chapel (without a leader its a long shot at this point)
JS Bachs

Industrious Remaining
----------------------------
Hoover Dam
Manhattan Project

I doubt we get the sisitine's chapel, and I doubt we want to wait till the modern era. But Hoover + JS Bach's is still viable if we make it a goal to get to music theory and build it first now.

If small wonder's count (which I dont think they do) then the forbidden palace counts as a religious.

BTW off topic, but while I was looking at these in the editor, has anyone else noticed that copernicus is flagged expansionist instead of scientific :P

	20-09-2002 22:44									#38
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I'd be careful about waiting too long to have the Golden Age.

Chances are very poor of us building any Religious wonder unless we get another GL at the right time.

(All AI civs that are beat to Sistine Chapel that have Music Theory will switch to Bachs.) If we already had the prereq to Music Theory, I'd say rsearch Music Theory now. But there's no way we'd finish researching the prereqs to Music Theory before the AI will be far ahead building Bachs.

This rules out peaceful GA during the industrial ages as a realistic option. So we will have to use our War Chariot while oppoents still have 1 defense units to trigure it.

Right now, I'd recommend either towards the end of conquest of the Persian empire or the start of the second American campiagn.

And if we are betrayed again, trigure the GA immedately.

Small Wonders won't count for golden age. I do think we get a 25% discount building the Forbidden Palace though for being Religious.

	20-09-2002 23:43									#39
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I think I agree, unless we end up with another GL to get the sistine with before the end of the persian war, then we should count out any chance of us getting a peaceful GA, and assume that it has to come from a war chariot victory, which is increasingly unlikely as we move out of the middle ages.

So no leader = trigger it against the americans IMO.

	21-09-2002 11:23									#40
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Three things need to be done before we get GA.

1. Take Persian Homeland.

2. Settle Uber Island.

3. Change to Republic.

Best time to use GA: begining of quick strike attack on multiple American Cities (maybe all of them).

	22-09-2002 01:45									#41
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Three things need to be done before we get GA. 1. Take Persian Homeland. 2. Settle Uber Island. 3. Change to Republic. Best time to use GA: begining of quick strike attack on multiple American Cities (maybe all of them).

hi ,

we should leave something of the persians , so we can play with them later , ....



have a nice day

	22-09-2002 04:19									#42
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , we should leave something of the persians , so we can play with them later , .... have a nice day

They will have trhee cities towrds the north coast, close to the Aztecs.

E_T

	22-09-2002 08:01									#43
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we are gonna trigger GA by using military unit? why dont we rush build sistine using GL or something...

	22-09-2002 09:44									#44
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Ummm... because we don't have a GL at the moment?

If we get another, I can't see any other viable alternative than to build the Chapel. Rest assured, if we get one, any poll that gets made will be overwhelmingly in favor of Chapel.

We just should play by depending on GL. Use them as a bonus, not a need.

	22-09-2002 11:13									#45
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Three things need to be done before we get GA. 1. Take Persian Homeland. 2. Settle Uber Island. 3. Change to Republic. Best time to use GA: begining of quick strike attack on multiple American Cities (maybe all of them).

The things we need to do before we get GA:

1. Take Persian Homeland.
2. Take American Homeland.
3. Change to Rep.
3. Build up continental cities a bit.
We can ignore the progress level of Uber Island for this purpose.

	22-09-2002 12:05									#46
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Uber Island has a nice base for rapid expansion except for the lack of Lux. Except for that, We should have enough with what's there and with sending a couple of worker and we'll be set.

The SMC will be building some roads through the Jungle to the War zone/Captured Cities. Once they are opened up, well be able to send a War Chariot and get our GA. I don't think that we'll be finish with this war within the next 20turns.

E_T

	22-09-2002 22:01									#47
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it would be nice if our warchariots CAN induce GA... then next GL we get, we can build an army for heroic epic = more chance of GL.... but as of now, I see that next GL should be used for GA triggering possibility...

	23-09-2002 11:03									#48
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This GL should be used to trigger GA or we might miss our opertunity to have one altogether.

Go Sistine's Chapel!!!

	23-09-2002 15:45									#49
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Possibilities left for triggering a GA:
1. Winning battles with war chariots, which is only possible against the Americans and it's becoming increasingly less likely that there'll be much left of them, if at all, by the time we invade their territory.
2. Building the Sistine Chapel.
3. Building JS Bach's Cathedral.
4. Building the Hoover Dam some time in the middle of the next age.

Option 1 is becoming increasingly less likely, so we can't assume we'll ever be able to use our UU to trigger a GA.
Option 3 is a bad option. JS Bach's is not a very good wonder, especially when we'll be able to build much better wonders such as Leonardo's Workshop which provide a tremendous advantage.
Option 4 is bad too. I don't think we can wait until the middle of the next era for our GA.
Therefore, we are left with option 2, which will also give us one of the most powerful wonders in the game, if not the most powerful.

	23-09-2002 20:49									#50
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I just had a thought. Maybe the best time to have a golden age is at Cavalry&Musket era (or we could use it to propell our sci into Mili tradition). We would get the extra production at a time when the attack unit is a move 3 attack 6 and the defender is defense 4 and requires saltpeter. This would give us a good boost and Cavalry will still be very strong up until the moment when the AI discovers Replaceable parts.

War Charriots can kill longbowmen easily. They can also kill a wounded knight/cav with some luck.

	23-09-2002 22:54									#51
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For peaceful Golden Age you need to build a wonder (or combo) with both traights.

Building Sistine Chapel / Bach's won't trigure the GA, but will merely allow for the possibility of having it in the Industrial age with Hoover Dam.

(We would have had to be playing a Religous - Military civ, say Japan if we wanted a Golden Age for building Sun Tzu + Sistine Chapel.)

	23-09-2002 22:58									#52
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The start of the American war is a good time if it's not pushed back again if the Aztecs stop taking their cities.

But we don't need to have the improvements in the contientant first. Instead, we use the Golden Age to speed up building the improvements.

Yes, switching to Republic so that we don't waste 1 turn of it in Anarchy would be prefered, but it's not nearly as critical as it would be if we weren't religious.