07-08-2002 01:13									#1
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It has occured to me that a lot of stories on this forum dont get completed.There may be any number of reasons why this happens and I certainly dont want to dissuade anyone from writing.

I myself joined Apolyton because I enjoyed the stories here so much and want to write one of my own when time permits.

However my point here is that I feel it is possible that some authors dont feel the need or the inspiration to complete a particular story once it has been through the contest process,and can not be entered again in future rounds.

IMHO I think it would be a better thing all round if stories had to be complete before they could progress from the nominations,the actual nomination probably acts as an incentive anyway.

I know some people will not agree but thats why Ive started this thread,to air the subject,please post your opinions and any potential solutions.

And lastly I must emphasize that I really enjoy all the stories here,there is some real talent on this forum.

	07-08-2002 03:27									#2
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This thread is a good idea. I can tell you why some people don't wanna finish: when they come in last in the preliminaries, like my stories inevitably do, it doesn't exactly inspire them to continue, does it?

And you're right that only finished stories should be put in the vote. It makes no sense at all when stories are given a 5-star rating and put in the vote when only one episode has been written. It appears that favouritism of stories has nothing to do with the quality of the stories but it's all about who likes who.

Also, what's with multiple voting??? Like what if everyone had voted for both Gore and Bush? It makes no sense at all. I never participate in that silly vote because of this and the buddy system mentioned above.

	07-08-2002 06:28									#3
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I believe nominated stories need to be finished stories. One of the better stories written was by Bella Halla or someone like that and it was a great story but was incomplete. Once they one the contest we never heard about that story again no matter how much people were posting and begging for the completion.

So I totally agree with you ChrisiusMaximus.

I don't know about this buddy system. I just vote on what stories I like.

	07-08-2002 14:12									#4
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Yes Unscratchedfoot its that lack of incentive thats the key issue for me,and I'm hoping that the regulars to the stories page will join the debate and help us to find some solution/s.

I disagree on your point about giving ratings though,to me this is a way to encourage the author to continue.I sometimes forget to rate stories that I like,how do other people use this feature ie do you always give a 5 or do you vary your ratings dependant on how you like a particular story.

not sure what I think about multiple votes at this time, would like much more feedback before making my own mind up on that point.

Dnassman you must be able to read my mind,I loved Amys Story by Bella Hella,it was one of the stories that convinced me to join these forums.It's a bit frustrating not to be able to finish a good read.

Now heres another thought,is it actually unfair to the writers of completed stories to be beaten in the contests by stories that may never get finished.a story may have a 5* beginning and continue to thrill as you read further into the text but without an ending it is not a story just a part or collection of parts.

	07-08-2002 14:25									#5
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Sorry just a quickie,

I'm a Builder in real life and my clients are only happy when I complete the job!!

	07-08-2002 19:26									#6
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I agree. It would certainly be fairer to the more uncommon writers on the forum if only completed stories could be nominated for the contest.

However, I believe multiple voting is a good idea. It allows a voter to show his support and encouragement for the writers of as many stories as he likes. In addition, there may be two or more exceptionally good stories in any given contest, and multiple voting allows you to vote for both.

Favoritism ("the buddy system") is an issue in the contest, to a degree. If a well-known writer, veteran of the forums, enters a story in a contest, voters will be more compelled to read his story then the story of a lesser-known, maybe first-time writer. So first-time writers usually get slightly less reading than the veteran writers.

This is NOT to say that all voters in the contest automatically vote for the writers they've heard of. All voters are certainly not guilty of some rash compulsion to vote for better-known writers. Round 12 is certainly a good example of why favoritism is NOT a serious problem. I'm simply saying that people are sometimes reluctant to read stories written by new people.

	07-08-2002 20:25									#7
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I've submitted all of two stories here over the last 6-8 months since I only do so when the story is complete. I don't understand why someone would send a partial story, let alone one they haven't actually finished writing. I don't have a problem with it, I just don't understand.

I must have ten more Civ stories that I haven't finished. Not one will be posted until it is finished.

(And at this rate that could well be never!)

	08-08-2002 08:14									#8
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I judge every story I read as is and not by the author. I might remember the author of a good story and would be anxious to read something else they have written but will not vote just because he is a good writer.

Definitely agree that it is unfair that uncompleted stories go up against completed ones. Think about novels that are written and the best sellers list. If you think about a novel which is half written and incomplete but has enormous potential and so far is a great read, goes up against a completed novel then would people actually buy the incompleted book and allow the incompleted novel to be best seller. Does that make sense or am I just a bit full of it.

ChrisiusMaximus: Yeah I understand the frustration of a great story not being completed like Bella Hallas one.

	08-08-2002 12:18									#9
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Thanks to those of you who have replied so far,seems I might have touched on something here but not enough debate or possible solutions yet.

There's probably a lot of folks away at the moment on holiday so this will have to run for a while.Civman when you see this thread I'd be pleased to know your thoughts on this,I think we may have to consider some changes to the rules, probably need a poll in the future.

I myself will be away now till the 17th,please post your thoughts here and encourage others to do so,after all if we want a fair system as many people as possible need to be involved in the process.

And lastly to remind you of my first post I really like all the stories here there is great talent on this forum.

	08-08-2002 22:19									#10
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quote: IMHO I think it would be a better thing all round if stories had to be complete before they could progress from the nominations,the actual nomination probably acts as an incentive anyway.

I agree. This would have helped me in at least one case... My story wasn't complete by nomination, and I worked- but failed to complete it, thus, I lost

good idea
-
An unfinished story may be nominated, but may not proceed to semifinals unless it is completed.

Then, if it takes another round to finish, it may proceed even if there are 8 stories submitted in the next round, it will make a 9th.

	08-08-2002 22:35									#11
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Good thread! I must confess that I'm guilty of having started a few stories and not finished them....UGH...sometimes, my brain really gets wrapped up in an idea, I charge off in that direction and then...poof...the momentum just goes away.... Sucks, but it happens....*sigh*

I disagree though, that the voting is unduly biased or corrupted in some way by the buddy system. I'd consider myself a veteran writer here (a pretty healthy supply of Alpha Centauri fiction), and yet, my latest was handily beaten by the Guitarist's very first story! That's good to see...and in my mind, a sign that there's definitely no unfair advantages in the system.

Just my two cents

-=Vel=-

	09-08-2002 00:40									#12
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So vel... Just what are you trying to say exactly?
I'm sorry, but you were a bit unclear... Do you support this idea or not?

	09-08-2002 00:59									#13
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Ahhh....lol...yeah, I guess I didn't really finish the thought, eh? Personally, I'd be in favor of setting it up such that only finished works could be considered for the contest. That would give me some added incentive not to simply let them die on the ol' vine....

-=Vel=-

	09-08-2002 02:16									#14
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Well, I have had a story go through the contest incomplete and win, but that hasn't stopped me from trying to finish it. Winning or losing a contest will not stop me from continuing a story; no feedback from readers is what will do it.

I'm not sure how I feel about unfinished stories going into the contest. I think that having your story nominated, even though it is only 1/4 or 1/2 done, will inspire the author to write more fervently.

Of course, if you are only half way through your story and it gets nominated then loses, I can understand why people would be discouraged; they have no chance of their story going into the contest again, so they abandon it and move on to something else. Perhaps if a story gets nominated that is unfinished, it should only be the written part that is nominated - anything the author adds after that would be part two or whatever, and it could be nominated. Hm...not sure if I'm saying it clearly.

On the other hand, I understand why some of you only want completed stories in the contest.

I guess my overall opinion would be, let people nominate whatever they want. If someone can provide something insightful as to why this is wrong, I might be swayed.

	09-08-2002 03:34									#15
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quote: I'm not sure how I feel about unfinished stories going into the contest. I think that having your story nominated, even though it is only 1/4 or 1/2 done, will inspire the author to write more fervently.

It does.

quote: Of course, if you are only half way through your story and it gets nominated then loses, I can understand why people would be discouraged;

True.

I think what you were trying to say is to split up the story so that part II, which will be the finished part, will be considered for another contest.

-
I agree with you fully.

And thanks for the explanation Vel

	09-08-2002 04:28									#16
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I think there are some very good ideas coming out here. We need civman to come back and hopefully take on board what has been discussed.

	09-08-2002 12:43									#17
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My one and only story is massive. It is almost a novel in progress. I will probably never finish the story (though I am thinking of starting a new thread in a 'sequal', though it would really jut be a break up of the story into a new thread), though I have been working on it considerably since it went to the story contest. Though, I never wrote really for the story contest anyway, I just wrote to write the story. And on top of this since I am an exception with my large story, and not a rule, then I would have no problem to the proposal that only finished stories may be in the contest.

Kman

	16-08-2002 02:58									#18
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Ive come back a couple of days early due to poor weather in the English Lake District,thanks to everyone who has responded.There seems to be general agreement that only completed stories should progress to the contests.Certainly no one has posted an outright objection.

Civman I'm not sure if you have seen this but I need to know how to poll opinion on this,also what do you think about my original point.

I noticed that no new posts since the 9th,so has this lost steam,it looks as though its had lots of views though.

	16-08-2002 03:53									#19
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It is my belief that a story should only be included in the stories contest after it is complete. If this means there is a bigger gap between each individual contest, so be it.

I basically had Generations complete when it got nominated and won, but Odyssey of a Hero was work in progress (which was luckily finished by the time the finals of the contest ran). The Cost of War won the contest while still only being 75% complete.

I can understand why people will be discouraged if their story doesn't get anywhere in the contest, that's why I would like to see only completed stories get nominated and for a story to be complete, the author has to say: It is complete!

	16-08-2002 04:03									#20
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I have to both agree and disagree. I myself writing story ("Three Superpowers") because I like to do that, not because I would like to win in the contest. But, howver, if I'd really take one of the last places in the contest, I'd maybe stop writing my story. Not because after contest is over I wouldn't think there would be any reasons to continue, but because I would feel that story isn't popular and people doesn't likes it.
So I think maybe it is even good - if some person writes a story that is not so good (and not so much people reads it) and that story shows bad in contest, writer could start another story instead of putting new chapters to a story few people reads and enjoys. Maybe that new story would be better and make fun to a lot more people than the first one. And author won't be wasted much time on bad story.

	16-08-2002 13:20									#21
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Chrisius Maximus, you do have a point about stories not being completed it annoys be that stories that have not been completed can enter the polls and go on to win while completed stories don't even get nominated.

Last edited by Yoda II on 13-09-2002 at 17:24

	16-08-2002 13:20									#22
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Hee Hee look at em go

	16-08-2002 13:24									#23
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quote: Originly posted by ChrisiusMaximus I am a builder in real life

You mean theres a real life

	16-08-2002 19:13									#24
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ALERT ALERT!!

BTW, What's real life? It's like Civ III?

	06-09-2002 17:19									#25
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pepper is lethal

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

	08-09-2002 00:14									#26
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I am one of the biggest perpetrators of incomplete stories, and for me it is the lack of feedback, all the feedback I get is lame stuff like "this is funny" I don't care that it's funny, I want to know why. When someone quotes something from my stories and then puts hahaha after it, it's a little better, but not much. My first story was one where the band Metallica ruled a country, and nobody even replied to it. My second was CGW which most are familiar with, and it was good because of the feedback. Sometimes it just takes a push to get a story going.

The main reason my activity has dropped off is the lack of responses, because honestly, the contest doesn't mean much to someone who doesn't like the apolytonware. That's right Mark, THE PRIZE SUCKS!!

But the suckiness of the prize didn't stop me just like the lack of a prize wouldn't have stopped me, I honestly write here to improve my writing overall, and because it's fanfiction I don't have to worry about settings and characters and such, a game provides them for me.

Making it so unfinished stories cannot win the contest is fine, but bear in mind all of the reasons which they are unfinished.

	08-09-2002 06:21									#27
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Metaliturtle thanks for your response,it has been sometime since there has been some serious points added to this thread,about three weeks.I thought it was probably dead guess its kinda how it feels to get no response to a story or at least positive response critical or otherwise.

If I'm honest I dont think I've ever commented on one of your pieces,please accept my apology for this I dont usually have much time to post but I will try to return the favour by reading one of your stories and posting my thoughts.

I was hoping that civman would se this and respond maybe he will yet I noticed hes been busy with an nes or two.I'm content to leave this to run for as long as people want to comment on the issues raised but think there may need to be a poll sometime and I have no idea how to do this and would like some help.

Metaliturtle my reason for wanting to see stories completed is purely selfish in essence,in that I the reader want closure be it a happy ending or not but I fully understand your point and we as readers should do more to encourage the writers here.

Once more thank you for your response.

	08-09-2002 07:39									#28
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sorry.

I'm very guilty of unfinished work.

	08-09-2002 07:51									#29
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Please dont feel guilty the intention is not to condemn but encourage you to write more,and as Metaliturtle pointed out there also needs to be more feedback from readers to stories.

	08-09-2002 23:29									#30
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Chrisus- if you want that- then please be sure to post in threads with ongoing stories- it helps encourage the readers. If you are reading them and the reader is asking questions, etc. then please respond- that will help