09-08-2002 03:55									#31
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The CCCP welcomes The Magic Banana as our fourth member.

Welcome in the Party, Banana !!

	09-08-2002 06:58									#32
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I'd like to join the CCCP. Green economy, Democracy. Engels counts.

	09-08-2002 07:02									#33
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Welcome, Lucky22 and Banana, to the CCCP!

	09-08-2002 12:43									#34
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Welcome lucky22 as our fifth member !

	09-08-2002 20:29									#35
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Happy to be aboard.
Economically speaking- what about Primitive Accumulation? For the same reasons our doctrine begins with planned and moves to green economics, shouldn't it be ok to endorse free market for a while? Marx understood the infrastructure to originally develop under free market conditions. Or does our situation on Chiron parallel Terrestrial industrial development so closely? If it doesn't, and we are to consider ourselves further along, then of course planned to green makes the most sense. With so few citizens to begin with though, true injustice and environmental destruction won't kick in for a little while- 75 years?

	09-08-2002 22:18									#36
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Lucky22, your analysis on Marx's theories is really intersting. And the CCCP has been created to promote a new chance to Marx's ideas. Thus, I think your suggestion about switching to Free Market as a necessary development before a Green Economy deserves a discussion, intern to the party.

I will post later on this thread to let you know my own thoughts about it, though I think Free Market is not an acceptable option, even for a short time.

	10-08-2002 02:46									#37
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Pan- I'm only talking about F.M. at first- then to planned then to green. Serious exploitation of the proletariat can't begin until we're a little bigger. I'm happy to go with planned on ideological grounds, of course with the understanding that we've got to try to keep drones to an absolute minimum. Not even Capital will want excess drones anyway, so game mechanics are in our political favour.

	10-08-2002 06:11									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak Free Market is not an acceptable option, even for a short time.

Notice the date and the research rate. This is what free market does for research.

	10-08-2002 06:25									#39
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TKG: The fastest track to consumerist implosion is of somewhat less interest than the shape of the world that arrives at the end of time. This great human experiment deserves the evolutionarily optimum solution.

On to another matter. As we proceed, we of the CCCP should note that the structure of this game favors what Marx describes in the Communist Manifesto: III/1/B as "petty borgeois socialism". No coincidence there. Marx describes that vision of us as "reactionary and Utopian". Like any ideological faction in AC, the CCCP must play to its strength or be kicked out of the jungle. In Marx' footsteps, Louis Althusser 's "dialectical materialism" acknowleged ideology as an imaginary representation of the real- but also promoted a philosophical step beyond considering society to be transparent (eg: optimum ac victory conditions).
Dialectical materialism is meant to function at the end of history- where we of the CCCP happen to be standing.
"To the conception of knowledge as "vision" dialectical materialism opposed to it a conception of it as production"
-Norman Geras, writing in A Dictionary of Marxist Thought
-ship's datalinks

Last edited by lucky22 on 10-08-2002 at 06:40

	10-08-2002 06:44									#40
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quote: Originally posted by TKG Notice the date and the research rate. This is what free market does for research.

What is the research rate on Green?

	10-08-2002 06:51									#41
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Green Economics: +2 efficiency, +2 growth, -2 support

	10-08-2002 06:53									#42
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every 9 turns. i was just coming out of a war (sorry to say it pandemoniak, but it was against the drones ) and i had to switch to green for it, so i know it off hand.

	10-08-2002 07:23									#43
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We can prevent the AI from crushing us like bugs at a rate of 9 turns per discovery.

	10-08-2002 07:27									#44
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that's not my point though.

	10-08-2002 07:31									#45
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quote: Originally posted by TKG that's not my point though.

But do you deny it?

There are stated downsides to Free Market.....and you keep advocating research as the reason for FM....But if its un-needed research, then....

	10-08-2002 08:40									#46
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One consideration is that if you're running Free Market you won't be able to go around popping pods... and on a Huge maps there are a huge amount of pods.

	10-08-2002 15:54									#47
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Adam is right, and we may even get more research by pod popping than by normal research, on a huge map.

Tassadar is right too, what's the point to have five new technologies a turn if we spend all our energy and minerals to get more and more and more science. I totally value Knowledge, but with a restriction : it is only a need for happy citizens. It is not in order to get as much technologies as we can.

About switching to Free Market for a while, I stand definetly against it, for diplomatic reasons. We would drive both the Planet and Lady Deirdre (she looks cute when she's angry, though... but this is quite off topic) mad, and thus we wouldn't be able to keep peace around us.

Last edited by Pandemoniak on 10-08-2002 at 16:40

	10-08-2002 17:20									#48
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One can pop pods under FM. Use probe units. We wouldn't spend all our energy at research. We would stay at 50/50, so we'll have a large enough energy income to rush-buy should that be required.

	10-08-2002 18:54									#49
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quote: Originally posted by AdamTG02 One consideration is that if you're running Free Market you won't be able to go around popping pods... and on a Huge maps there are a huge amount of pods.

even though it is 2219, i had already conquered my continent. i was on the middle continent on huge planet map. in this game, deirdre was the 2nd most powerful faction, but all the way over at the jungle, and only has impact weapons. Cha is on the L contient with morgan, and is researching information networks. Nothing to worry about.

	10-08-2002 20:55									#50
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I'm currently playing a Transcend PK game on the same map as well. I started on the Borehole Continent, but I'm trapped between the Believers and Hive (Can it be worse? ), slowing down my expansion possibilities.

	10-08-2002 21:54									#51
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Guys, this is not a thread where to talk about the SP games you are playing, this the Democracy Game CCCP thread.

	11-08-2002 03:04									#52
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Comrades, the elections are now finished, and results were very close. Crisler has been elected as our Commissionner. Though the CCCP was supporting the CDC candidate, Darkness' Edge, we respectfully salutes Crisler's Victory.

Commissioner Crisler wrote:

quote: To this end I wish to call for a Constitutional Committee to be formed. I ask the leaders of each Party, yes folks Party not Coalitions, to be members of this committee.

Though I have funded the CCCP, I prefer to be called Comrade Founder or Comrade Foreman than "leader of the CCCP".

Now what questions should we discuss at this commitee ?

1. Forbidding Punishment Spheres
j/k

1. Numbers, specific tasks and specific powers of the directors.
2. Specific tasks of the Commissioner.
3. Representative Assembly.

Any other suggestions, comrades ?

	11-08-2002 03:33									#53
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quote: 1. Forbidding Punishment Spheres

Sorry to get in your thread Pande, but the constitution will only contain how the government will function, not morale policy of our faction.

	11-08-2002 04:47									#54
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I dont mind if you post in our threads, as long as its not totally off topic.

Julien, j/k means just kidding.

	11-08-2002 19:42									#55
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I second "Comrade Foreman" or even just "Foreman". As far as an initial agenda goes, the three items you suggest as being on the table should be enough to keep everyone busy for a while.
btw: How the heck did Crisler win?? (He seems like a nice guy and everything, but geez...)

	12-08-2002 13:27									#56
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I am thus waiting for your suggestions

I dont know how Crisler won, but he's likely our ally about punishment spheres and atrocities. He's a man who can be trusted about that.

	12-08-2002 14:20									#57
	I'd like to join the CCCP Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Altough I prefer Police State to Democracy (I like the support bonus, and the police bonus isn't too bad either), Democracy is pretty nice too. Count me in (please)

	12-08-2002 15:08									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Gnool Altough I prefer Police State to Democracy (I like the support bonus, and the police bonus isn't too bad either), Democracy is pretty nice too. Count me in (please)

Welcome to the CCCP

Also....we cannot allow Police State. Because of our current faction, Police state is an option we will never achieve.

	12-08-2002 15:22									#59
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Seeing P.S. can't be chosen then I guess democracy is fine. Woohoo I'm in the CCCP

Last edited by Gnool on 12-08-2002 at 15:33

	12-08-2002 15:44									#60
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Welcome in the CCCP, Gnool !