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Anodyne
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Being perverse is bad.
Jan 2001
time: 07:21
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(Don't get the title too metaphorically.)
So, finally, after a long wait, I had enough time on my hands to start a thread about my party, the Liberal Social Democrats. The name is more referring to Earth politics than to the AC-ones, partly because the party was formed already on Earth.
Our first keyword is FREEDOM. Equal freedom for everyone. And all laws of our society should be put only to protect freedom and ensure freedom equally for everyone. Only "restrictive" laws are made for preventing anyone from preventing anyone else accomplishing him/herself freely - another word for protecting freedom and liberty equally for everyone. This has a reflection on our preferred SE-tables.
Which leads to our another basic principal: FLEXIBILITY. As many other parties have set themselves standards that they follow more or less blindly, LSD follows its own guidelines along with the need of environment / situation. Basically this means, that our Social Engineering choices should be made in accountance of our current situation and needs.
There are, however, some choices that we find unacceptable in almost all situations. These are:
Police State
Fundamentalism
Thought Control
Planned Economy (although that can be used in the early stages of the game)
You probably find reasons in our freedom-loving ideology. The "Power" option, for example, was not found unacceptable, since there are times of great conflict, when we need to make sacrifices in our personal freedoms, although LSD tries to limit these to as few as possible.
This leads to our third guideline; PACIFISM
As on Earth, LSD is against war also here on AC, and we aim to live peacefully with the other 6 factions. There are some factions that come very close to us in their values. Those are; The University, Morganites and Gaians. LSD suggests that we collaborate and co-operate with these parties in all areas for our mutual welfare.
On Alpha Centauri there are also factions that we find opposed on our own ideals; The Hive, The Believers and the Spartans. While I do suggest that we try to live with them peacefully and accept their values as they are, we must bear in our minds that their sometimes open hostility might bring us into situations that we wouldn't want to find ourselves in. That's why I wouldn't suggest too small military forces for our control, although the ideals of pacifism.
While the ideals of Freedom and Peace are now executed the first time on the surface of Alpha Centauri, we might find them in fragile state, so that they do need protection. With the other 3 factions we deem as suitably liberal, we can ensue the life of Democracy on Alpha Centauri. However, should any of these three find themselves in a situation of Vendetta by the non-democratic or pacifistic factions mentioned, we are to help them in any ways possible. If they are in a situation when they are about to be succumbed, fighting a losing war, we should ponder our changes of military aid to ensure Democratic future for AC. But as LSD is pacifistic, we always ponder what effects will our choices have on the future generations.
However, if we see a conflict that doesn't directly threaten Democracy or Freedom on Alpha Centauri, we attempt to stay as neutral as possible.
And as LSD is concerned about the future, we also have GREEN interests. The Native Life of the Planet is precious and as fragile as the life on Earth was. Although we must defend our own citizens from the possible threats the Native life might bring, we are to accept and respect it as it is. One day, I'm sure, we will find these principals to be of a great mutual benefit.
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Crisler
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Royalton, IL
Jul 2002
time: 23:21
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I will agree that in the base game mechanics it does reduce the research score, however there are many ways to counter that.
As for the reduction of creativity or individual thought, this is purely wrong. In fact this is even wrong of Christians, not just Fundamentalists. What fundamentalist seeks to do is set a standard of morality for the colony to live by. In this case the Christina morality. Why is it so wrong to ask each person to love his neighbor as himself? To live by the Golden Rule? To follow the basic moralities that are universally excepted.
Without a moral plum-line we devolve quickly into a society with no moral rudder. We rationalize and justify all manner of behavior becuase it in fringes on our creativity, at least that is the argument. But when that creativity is really looked at, none want it. Oh they spout how it is personal freedom and should be allowed, but behind closed doors they talk of how aweful it is.
Classic example of old earth. A gentleman made arm by SHITTING on his canvas. The people of a city found his work offensive and asked him to leave. People where in an uproar asking how we could stifle his creativity like that. The truth was 99% of the people polled by a world wide news agency, they claimed over 100,000 polled, said they would not want this mans creation in their city either.
We do not seek to limit or stop personal creativity or thought. We seek to provide society a moral plum-line to live by.
E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Crisler
Classic example of old earth. A gentleman made arm by SHITTING on his canvas. The people of a city found his work offensive and asked him to leave. People where in an uproar asking how we could stifle his creativity like that. The truth was 99% of the people polled by a world wide news agency, they claimed over 100,000 polled, said they would not want this mans creation in their city either.
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You have misunderstood the purpose of art. Art is not made to please the masses, art is not made always to be comfortable for the mind and the eye. Art, a product of creativity, is made to drive people thinking, and in this case it served this purpose well. Also I would like to see a more reliable source of this "poll" and this allegded work of art, as I see this only as inventive "chicken soup for the soul", not something to use to gain leverage in a debate.
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Anodyne
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Being perverse is bad.
Jan 2001
time: 07:21
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quote:
Ade,
It is interesting that you speak of other factions having "set themselves standards that they follow more or less blindly" and then proceed to say we are willing to be felexable in all things ecept. Then you set a very rigid standard that you say you will not flex from.
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Now, flexibility is our standard, like I said, on matters that come to governing, Social Engineering. It includes aspects like admitting when we're wrong and watching to matters from all sides. It is not our fundamental backbone, but rather the flesh over those bones. Now, if we attempted to make a party that was based on flexibility and nothing else, could you call it a party? No. Police cars are blue but you cannot make a police car out of just a bucket of blue paint.
quote:
Also I find it of interest that the only other faction to express any desire to work a more Green approach was the Fundamentalist Faction.o express ideas of a defensive only military, again a point that was first introduced by the Fundamentalist Faction. |
Yes, we have similarities. Just like every political party with each other when you deeply look at it, and I'm not denying it. You might have put them down before, but still remember that LSD was first mentioned before your party, and I have been spurring out our ideologies for already some time before posting this thread. Also keep in mind that politics is not contest about who made something first. It's who applies these ideals the best and makes the most sensible choices.
quote:
You speak of equal freedom for all, again looking back over my older posts this is a virtue that the Fundamentalist Faction supports, seeking to stop the elitest system that dominated earth. |
As for "looking back over your older posts", look at my earlier comment. You have no need of accusing LSD for plagiation.
quote:
As I read your post it seems to almost mirror 90% of the original Fundamentalist Factions objectives. The only difference is your strong opposition to the Fundamentalist ideals. This is very strange considering that based on what you have described the Fundamentalist Factions seems to closest to your idealogically.
E.L. Crisler
Fundamentalist Faction |
Now, you claim this by saying that you support also Green economics, Defensive military and Equal Freedom? That sounds quite close to reductionism. Now, the "flexibility" and admitting our own mistakes is something you cannot greatly boast about. And differencies between Fundamentalism/Democratic systems are remarkable (and better left out of this short reply). In the end, all political parties might run for similar ends, but the means are different.
When you are really looking for something and really really want to find it, you can squeeze out just what you want from pretty much any writing... but I guess you're already familiar with that .
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07-08-2002 03:17
You obviously seem not to understand the point of a planned economy : we know what we need, and we produce according to the plans. It doesnt mean the state tells the workers what to produce, it means the state centralize the needs in order to avoid industrial wastes.
, I do say for myself that I find Knowledge and Cybernetic as the most preferred choices in their own categories.
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