07-08-2002 05:46									#1
	Why are my citizens unhappy after I make peace? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Eight Civilizations (including myself). At war with Six. Two on the same continent. Another three don't even send units to hit me because they are on another continent. The last Civ actually took a small town off me which I took back in a couple of turns. I have Luxuries up to 10% to maintain happiness in my Republic.

I finally make peace with 4 of the reasonable Civs. What happens? Half my civilization goes into disorder!

Why is that? I thought it would improve war weariness and everybody would be happy again...

I also recall that when each of the other Civs declared war on me, some cities went into a period of WLTKD. Am I missing something here?

Anyone?

	07-08-2002 06:09									#2
	Re: Why are my citizens unhappy after I make peace? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by YC4B4U Eight Civilizations (including myself). At war with Six. Two on the same continent. Another three don't even send units to hit me because they are on another continent. The last Civ actually took a small town off me which I took back in a couple of turns. I have Luxuries up to 10% to maintain happiness in my Republic. I finally make peace with 4 of the reasonable Civs. What happens? Half my civilization goes into disorder! Why is that? I thought it would improve war weariness and everybody would be happy again... I also recall that when each of the other Civs declared war on me, some cities went into a period of WLTKD. Am I missing something here? Anyone?

Pehaps the people think you were a sellout? This happened to me once. I made peace with a weaker civ so I can get a vassel state, but I went into anarchy in 2 turns after the treaty.

	07-08-2002 06:30									#3
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maybe the people were happy to attack the other civ, especially if they attqacked you first. and then when you stop the fighting your people get unhappy.. cause you didnt finish them off..

Just like real life, if USA goes and attacks Afghansistan and calls war off before completing their mission then US citizens will be unhappy but most will be happy while the fighting goes on !!

	07-08-2002 06:52									#4
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Usually, when you are attacked, you get a surge of happiness to make it seem like patriotism or something. when you end the war it goes away, and if your cities grew, they'll get sad.

	07-08-2002 07:11									#5
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This happens to me allot. I'll goto war and suddenly my cities have "we love the XXXX" but when I make piece, they go back to normal, or go into disorder.

	07-08-2002 07:22									#6
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Are these comments on reasons for the unhappiness heresay or based on comments from the developers which I have missed?

What I mean is, have the developers ever confirmed what you are suggesting. It makes sense to me but is that what the programmers intended...

	07-08-2002 07:27									#7
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If you want know what's causing unhappiness, right click on one of the unhappy citizens. It will tell you why they're not pleased.

	07-08-2002 07:56									#8
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Actually, I think a left click will bring up the unhappiness causes. But maybe a right click works too.

I once thought that cities near my capital or of a certain size got a extra bonus from luxuries. Then I saw a thread in which someone said that going to war with your enemies actually will make some of your citizens happy, as they will support the war. I guess that those citizens were happy because I was at war. Go figure.

Assuming that this is actually the case, this is one of those things -- like culture production being halved during war mobilization -- that really should be mentioned somewhere -- the game manual, the Civilopedia, the readme file -- but isn't, as far as I know.

	07-08-2002 13:34									#9
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When you're winning the war (especially when you're capturing cities), your citizens become happy. You need to be winning fast to outpace the war weariness under Republic or Democracy.
If you declare peace all turns back to normal.

	07-08-2002 14:37									#10
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click on the angry heads in the city vies,
and it will tell you why they are unhappy.

	07-08-2002 14:38									#11
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oh, and if it says "We're unhappy because Sid did not put MP in the initial game" there's nothing you can do about it for now.

	07-08-2002 15:04									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Willem If you want know what's causing unhappiness, right click on one of the unhappy citizens. It will tell you why they're not pleased.

The problem with that is that if there was something making them content that goes away they will not tell you. For example, if you have a city with a cathedral, and then the cathedral is destroyed and the city goes into disorder, the dialogue will not say, “We miss the cathedral” it will say “It’s much to crowded.”

	07-08-2002 19:21									#13
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Short memories .... may of been 20 years ago that said Cathedral silently crumbled.

	07-08-2002 20:08									#14
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You are still at war with 2 civs. War weariness is still increasing until you are at peace with everyone. It's just a coincidence that the bad effects happened the same turn you made peace with some of the civs.

	08-08-2002 11:47									#15
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WarpStorm is right. You have to make peace with all civs.

	08-08-2002 13:06									#16
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quote: Todd HAwks: WarpStorm is right. You have to make peace with all civs.

That's not true.
You have to make peace with the civs you're actually fighting with. I have had 'state of war' with 3 civs, while I was only fighting one of them. (my neighbour)

The people became angry, and after I took enough of his cities, I just agreed on peace. From that moment my people were happy again, while I was still in war with 2 other civs.

quote: The problem with that is that if there was something making them content that goes away they will not tell you

if they say "it's too crowded" they mean that they want a cathedral, temple, colloseum, etc. etc.
Against all the other types of sadness only luxerious works, or ending war.

	08-08-2002 13:36									#17
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The manual states that when you declare war, happines increases as a release to pre-war tension. As time continues under Rep or Demo, war weariness increases. I guess it is similar to the end of the war, when the tension returns.

	08-08-2002 13:58									#18
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So then go to war and stay there until your people start to get angry? Talk about going to war for political reasons.

	08-08-2002 14:27									#19
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That is generally what happens in the real world though under democracy or republic.

	08-08-2002 21:00									#20
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I have yet to see an unhappy citizen say, "We want to kick more a$$.", but I think if you're strong enough militarily and not using it, they will be thinking this.

Or I could just be imagining it.

I generally tell the city governors to handle happines. I don't see civil unrest very often. Happiness is the one job that the Gov'nor seems to be able to do fairly well.

	08-08-2002 21:47									#21
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quote: Originally posted by steven8r I generally tell the city governors to handle happines. I don't see civil unrest very often. Happiness is the one job that the Gov'nor seems to be able to do fairly well.

Does anyone know how to tell governors to keep their cities in WLTKD? They do fairly well to prevent riots, but I can't get them make their cities celebrate...

Regarding the effect of ending a war... I did notice on at least one occasion that my people were "disappointed" about me ending a war. And I am quite sure that it was not just a coincidence... But if there is a boost of happiness following the declaration of war (I did not know that until reading through this thread) then it gives perfect sense, as the war was pretty short...

	09-08-2002 02:17									#22
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I think war weariness has a little bug in it. Mainly, it’s posable for a another civ to hold you in a war you don’t want. In one game I spent over 50 years kicking Rome’s ass all over the place while they refused may ambassador, all the while [b]my[b] goals were put on hold. I had to almost stop research, so I could put it all into happiness, and all I got were a bunch of super corrupt cites. Against other humans, someone is going to find way to exploit this.

There should be a way to unilaterally declare pace, for the purposes of war weariness.

	09-08-2002 03:31									#23
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Seano1, in that case, change gov'ts. If you are in a long haul war use Communism or Monarchy (they each have their pros and cons, and no Communism doesn't suck.)

	09-08-2002 05:34									#24
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quote: Originally posted by seano1 I think war weariness has a little bug in it. Mainly, it’s posable for a another civ to hold you in a war you don’t want. In one game I spent over 50 years kicking Rome’s ass all over the place while they refused may ambassador, all the while [b]my[b] goals were put on hold. I had to almost stop research, so I could put it all into happiness, and all I got were a bunch of super corrupt cites. Against other humans, someone is going to find way to exploit this. There should be a way to unilaterally declare pace, for the purposes of war weariness.

That's a very good point worth repeating.

We know the AI civs cheat in that one will often launch a hopeless attack on the human, or refuse to make a reasonable peace while losing, all to let their fellow civs pass the human who is bust fighting a war. But in a MP game this could casue some interesting variations.

I wish we could just pay another civ to go to war with a rival, as we did in Civ 2.

	09-08-2002 16:14									#25
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quote: Originally posted by seano1 Against other humans, someone is going to find way to exploit this. There should be a way to unilaterally declare pace, for the purposes of war weariness.

So, in WW2 the Allies could have unilaterally delared peace with the Axis? How would this work? Would the Axis have stopped attacking?

If this is an exploit (and I don't think that it is), I already use it against the AI. I switch to a no war weariness gov and drag the Democracies down to my level before I end the war (this works best with a religious civ).

	10-08-2002 02:09									#26
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm So, in WW2 the Allies could have unilaterally delared peace with the Axis? How would this work? Would the Axis have stopped attacking?

How would it work? Well, obviously, if you actually attack the other civ, in its own territory, your people get very unhappy indeed because the violation of your stance of non-agression. And if the other civ attacks you, or you attack it in neutral territory, they also get unhappy. But there is no unhappiness simply from the other civ having a declared war against you.

Not that I think it's a good idea. Even a cold war would likely make people unhappy, albeit not as much. Maybe such unilateral peace declaration could have a limited effect on war weariness, without eliminating it completely?

Regarding exploits: war is often waged for political reasons, which may include fermenting unrest in another country. So this does not strike me as particularly unfair.

	10-08-2002 03:15									#27
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quote: Originally posted by JohnM2433 How would it work? Well, obviously, if you actually attack the other civ, in its own territory, your people get very unhappy indeed because the violation of your stance of non-agression. And if the other civ attacks you, or you attack it in neutral territory, they also get unhappy. But there is no unhappiness simply from the other civ having a declared war against you.

John, I believe this is much how it currently works. If you are in the state of war, but no actual fighting takes place, there are no enemy units in your territory, no units of yours in the enemy territory, then the war weariness is very low (although there still is some), IIRC.