07-08-2002 22:40									#1
	Nuclear Winter Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I decided to play out a game I lost (Russians built the spaceship). Since I had already lost, I decided to see how the AI uses nucs. I launched a nuc at the germans (#11 of 16) which triggered a MPP with the Russians, then every other civ but the 2 weakest declared war on me, even tho no other MPPs were involved. I had a sizeable (so I thought) stockpile so I attacked the Russians (#1) and the babs (#3). I eventually hit Moscow and a few Babylonian cities. Unfortunately, my SDI was 2 turns from completion. The AIs hit my forbidden palace city with 7 nucs (not sure from who). The also blaster my military academy city with 3 nucs. Those make sense although it annoys me that all the AIs seemed to know which cities to hit since they were all broke so had no money for recon. What confused me is that only 2 other cities were nuc’ed. One was a small snow city on a small island. Another was a mountain city near the center of my empire but it also had no significance as it was pop 11 but was only building its temple. (new city build via slave workers). Seems like everyone used their stockpiles the first turn because it took a few turns before any one had more nuc’s to throw around. By then my SDI was shooting down about half so I could see that the Indians, and Persians were major attackers, or at least theirs got shot down the most. What surprised me is that those 4 cities were the only ones ever targeted. All 4 were reduced to size 1, but kept getting attacked. Is this normal AI targeting?? I eventually reduced both India and Persia to nuclear rubble and the Russians ran out of nucs. And I overwhelmed their SDI (about 20% got thru) to destroy many of their large cities. I had to use conventional forces to take out the babs. Another thing I noticed is that I targeted a german city (no sdi), however a Russian unit was next to it, so the Russian sdi destroyed my missile. My question is: What nuc strategies have you seen the AI use?

	07-08-2002 22:56									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

you know, i have never ever used them (well i only got to 'modern' once IIRC )
even in civ2 I used them only once (to see what they do)

Something allways seems to holds me back, I guess I'm just to nice

Love to hear other peoples experiences though

	07-08-2002 23:00									#3
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The AI stockpiles anywhere from 2-10 nukes (in my expierence) and uses them all the first turn they have to.

I've only seen the AI use a nuke first in ONE game, and it was Japan (Irony) that did it to China.

Once the first nuke falls everyone's game.

	08-08-2002 01:11									#4
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I like to store, on a Tiny map, 40 to 60 ICBM's and then completely irradiate the entire planet. Very fun.

	08-08-2002 01:29									#5
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Since we're on the subject of nuclear war...I have a question...I noticed when having such a war that it causes global warming(naturally)...seems every turn I get a useless warning " Global warming has turned plains into desert" or something to that effect....sometimes I wait several minutes while it shows me every little scrap of land that has changed...sheesh ....Is there a way to turn this off?

	08-08-2002 02:28									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

ever notice that if you nuc a plains on a river, it turns into a flood plains instead of a desert. one of the few benefits of nuc radiation.....LOL

	08-08-2002 03:05									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I had an odd experience with AI nukes the only time so far Ive thrown them around.

I used on on Washington, no real point as I America only had 3 cities left but I was in revolution for 3 more turns and just about out of armour after my full out blitzkrieg for the last 5-8 turns. So I nuke washington and two of the three other civs in the game declare war on me, all except Ghandi, the tree hugger. So Im slightly annoyed but I figure whatever because I was going to invade the Zulu's and Persians soon anyway and they were both on another continent. Then during their turn, they both nuked me. I was ready for Berlin, Munich any of my big cities to get hit but instead they hit cities that were in bad locations for building, and both had more than half russian populations!

So then I started using my 15 or so nukes tacticaly in my invasion of the Zulu's and I think Ive got everyone too scared to declare war.

	08-08-2002 03:46									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The one problem with TBS, you cant creat a good cold war scenario.
Instead of both civs launching nukes at the same time, one of them launches first, and the other one is wiped out by the time its their turn!

	08-08-2002 04:14									#9
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quote: Originally posted by HazieDaVampire The one problem with TBS, you cant creat a good cold war scenario. Instead of both civs launching nukes at the same time, one of them launches first, and the other one is wiped out by the time its their turn!

Yes.

We asked for a Quick Response option for nuclear war after Civ 2 came out. We didn't get it.

We also have no RADIATION POISONING POLLUTION, just regular pollution.

So I modded out the Manhattan Project. Using nukes in the game is just too stupid and easy.

BTW, don't hand me that crap about "but ICBM's aren't destroyed so you can respond after the other side attacks" blah blah. That's not the point; it is not realistic; and it is not an equitable way to fight a war. Both sides should launch before the first nuke hits.

	08-08-2002 05:15									#10
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Then how about implementing an option where once ICBM's (not tactical nukes) are launched, they do not actually land until their next turn. The victim nation recieves a launch warning, giving them the option to launch back while their cities are still intact.

Granted turns are a minimum of a year long, and ICBM's dont take years, but minutes to reach their target, it is the tiniest bit 'unrealistic'. But since playing Civ3 forces one to check realism at the door anyway, might as well enhance gameplay a bit.

	08-08-2002 05:55									#11
	Re: Nuclear Winter Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by ALPHA WOLF 64 ... is that only 2 other cities were nuc’ed. One was a small snow city on a small island. Another was a mountain city near the center of my empire but it also had no significance as it was pop 11 but was only building its temple. ... My question is: What nuc strategies have you seen the AI use?

, well, I was attacking the French in modern times, with a load of modern armour. I would destroy cities as I advanced - leaving rails and irrigated patches. At one point I decided I had enough of walking around without building near the French side of the warfront, so one of my settlers plopped his bag open, and my resulting town had a border touching the edge of a French city with large territory (>1000culture points). What do you know. Next turn, the French nuke my little town with a tactical nuke. By this time I had defeated most of the French units, so all it had left it was using as defense.
I investigated, and eventually concluded that 1) the French AI had used nukes only when I had built my towns next to the French cities where the tactical nukes were stored. I should also mention, it was the French who used nukes first. I forget the name of the self guiding missile at the moment (not ICBM but the other one). Well, they used those in the same manner as the nukes. These things, like the nukes, weren't moved around, they were simply used whenever I had units next to the city.

I did notice that some of their nuclear subs were moving around the coast of my territory. However, I took them out before they launched; but from the tactical nuke's range, they could have been launched and hit some of my cities. Therefore, I am 2) also pretty sure that the AI uses some criteria for selecting the cities it will attack, and it will not attack the nearest city it finds.

3) I am pretty sure that your island city got nuked because there already were loaded nuclear subs lurking around the city before the nuclear war begun.

4) Was your population 11 city next/close to the sea?

I never did let them get ICBMs, I used leaders to build ICBMs (That was so much fun at a rate of a leader per turn). Once I took over Paris, I destroyed it, with the Manhattan project in it, and afterwards I could not build any nukes

	08-08-2002 05:58									#12
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quote: Originally posted by ALPHA WOLF 64 ever notice that if you nuc a plains on a river, it turns into a flood plains instead of a desert. one of the few benefits of nuc radiation.....LOL

it also clears forest / jungle without damaging underlying terrain.

Ive use that strategy to colonize South America on Marla's world map.

	08-08-2002 06:19									#13
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX it also clears forest / jungle without damaging underlying terrain. Ive use that strategy to colonize South America on Marla's world map.

I wish I thought of that, because I often find myself starting in mexico, with all this land to the south that's worthless because of endless jungles and barbarians.

	08-08-2002 06:20									#14
	Got spare money?

there were forests and jungles left? the darn AI clears them all so fast that i'd never noticed this.

	08-08-2002 06:38									#15
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As far as Vinicio's questions, the size 11 city was near the middle of the continent and was only a few turns old. The island city i doubt was sub based because it gets hit every few turns. you did remind me that 2 coastal cities were hit that first turn but i had so many workers that it was all cleaned up in a few turns, and both cities were only sized 5. I figured those were hit because they were across the channel from babylon and they used helicopters to land occupation troops. first time i ever saw the AI use helicopters, and what did they land.........BOWMEN!!!!!! One of my MA's actually broke a tread rolling over one of the arrows

	08-08-2002 08:05									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I KNOW!!!!!!

Arrows and spears are major mechanical issues for Tanks and MA...

Most of the enemy learned how to do this poking sticks into bicycle wheels, btw.

	08-08-2002 08:23									#17
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I play with modded rules.

You can only colonize grasslands, plains, and floodplains.

The AI doesnt clear a jungle to settle in it (sadly). I have seen some decent colony networks though.

I'd show some pics but i reformatted 2 days ago (leaving for college soon, dads takign over this computer ::sniff snif:

	08-08-2002 11:03									#18
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one game the ai did a surprise attack with nukes and started a huge mess. after most of the other ai civs declared war on them, i blew my load of 25 ICBM,s on them. after about 75 nukes had been used, the yellow polution meter had turned red and i was watching 50 or so global warming changes per turn. the whole world became a wasteland and my cities were all starving.
i managed to stay alive and win later with domination victory but i hope i never have to watch that again.
nuclear winter indeed

	08-08-2002 12:48									#19
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by HazieDaVampire The one problem with TBS, you cant creat a good cold war scenario. Instead of both civs launching nukes at the same time, one of them launches first, and the other one is wiped out by the time its their turn!

I'd love to play a Doomsday Device Scenario, in which dropping one bomb would result in a complete destruction of the attacker civ (or the whole planet). Maybe a Doomsday Device small wonder would be required. Unfortunately, I doubt such a mod can be made.

	08-08-2002 21:09									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If they ever allow Event Scripts, then it will.

	08-08-2002 22:00									#21
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX The AI doesnt clear a jungle to settle in it (sadly). I have seen some decent colony networks though.

are you sure about this? i've seen the AI build roads thru a jungle to settle in it or beyond. altho, i cant say for sure that they've ever precleared a jungle, i have seen them pre-irragate and pre-mine before the settler gets there. i tracked the settler right to the location while another scout observed the pre-building activities, so I know a city hadn't been there before.