08-08-2002 18:26									#1
	In 2X Production, What's The Most Worthless Wonder ? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm not specifying a play level, because I don't think that matters for the question.
If you do, just say "I play 'X' level, and 'X' Wonder to me is the worst".

On 2X production, I still contend that Pyramids are a waste of time and effort.


So what are your choices ?

	08-08-2002 19:32									#2
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the tower

	08-08-2002 20:00									#3
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1. The tower (obvious)
2. King Richards (pollution problems happen soon enough even without this one) I think I've only seen it built once in our regular 2x games.

I think Pyramids is far from useless on 2x prod. In 2x prod a lot more cities are build on mountains, especially border cities. Pyramids helps them get to size three quicker for potential celebrating. But yes, it does more in 1x.

Rich

	08-08-2002 20:02									#4
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quote: Originally posted by rah 1. The tower (obvious) 2. King Richards (pollution problems happen soon enough even without this one) I think I've only seen it built once in our regular 2x games. I think Pyramids is far from useless on 2x prod. In 2x prod a lot more cities are build on mountains, especially border cities. Pyramids helps them get to size three quicker for potential celebrating. But yes, it does more in 1x. Rich

king richards is one of the best wonders combined with shakespears its more powerful then mikes especially on 1x.,

	08-08-2002 21:36									#5
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Oracle, seems to expire VERY fast in x2

	08-08-2002 22:29									#6
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the tower & and the Oracle seem to be the most usless

	08-08-2002 22:37									#7
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Yes we thought the same on oracle, but then we just expanded it's life till idustrialization, and now it's much more popular. (i.e. it actually gets build now)

And yes KRC is very good in 1x. In 2x, less so, which might explain why I've never seen Markus build it in any of our games.

	09-08-2002 00:17									#8
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quote: Originally posted by rah Yes we thought the same on oracle, but then we just expanded it's life till idustrialization, and now it's much more popular. (i.e. it actually gets build now) And yes KRC is very good in 1x. In 2x, less so, which might explain why I've never seen Markus build it in any of our games.

in the game with me you makeo and someone else i built it. I had over 50 shields in one of my cities and was cranking out wonders like crazy. Also most of your games don't even get to engineering.

	09-08-2002 00:54									#9
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they always go past engineering.....more likely to cannons..then just as it gets interesting , it ends....

in a long game, CFC is kinda weak...not really needed by that time, although it can add a pop point or two...

UN..all this does, is get the senate in your way dueing war...the embassies, should already be there......

Manhattans no one likes nukes...... well i do

GW...most game disallow bribe so wall is out...and all it does is protect you until cannons...and by then if your not up to snuff.....walls or no walls..your in trouble

	09-08-2002 01:17									#10
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King richard's crusade is good, but not as good as some other wonders. I used to go straight for richard's and get it like around 2400BC and then mine all the grass squares in my city. Shakespear's is basically useless on 2x. On 1x deity it's useful, but on deity any happy wonder is useful. 2x I've never ever built shakespear's. Oracle is completely useless on 2x, about as useless as shakespear's. Tower is pretty obvious of course. Copernicus and Isaac's are definitely useless unless you have an excess of caravans to get rid of. On 2x Pyramids is probably one of the best wonders.

	09-08-2002 03:28									#11
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I must agree with penis flayer about the Pyramids.

I never build Great Library. I did twice and got,rounded, zero techs from it.

	09-08-2002 03:55									#12
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Well most good players don't need to build GL, but in your case I would think GL would do wonders for you.

By the way, never knew you were a fan of penis. But if that's the way you swing that's your choice...not that there's anything wrong with that.

	09-08-2002 15:54									#13
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Oh hi. Nice to see you drop by. Flayed some penis lately?

	09-08-2002 16:01									#14
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Would you guys just stop it...

	09-08-2002 16:23									#15
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On the actual topic, and not the one related to body parts...

The most useless WoW with 2x and 1x production IMO The Oracle, but number 2 has to be Mr. Eiffel's tourist atraction. Women's Suffrage is also IMHO quite useless, as I don't expect that my cities wouldn't be without units as defense, but of course having as many wonders as possible will increase your scores, so building those most useless ones too is quite atractive too.

	09-08-2002 17:20									#16
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Not enough experience to contribute meaningfully here, except to say I've never found a strong benefit to Oracle or Eiffel at any setting.

But I'd like to *slightly* redirect the question --

What Wonder loses the most value in switching from 1X to 2X?

	09-08-2002 19:25									#17
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What is your infatuation with penis? Look, I told you, which way you swing is your choice, but don't try to press your sexuality on me or other people on apolyton.

	10-08-2002 11:26									#18
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Both of you are making me very wet and horny

	10-08-2002 12:30									#19
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What's smartfart going on about anyway?

I use to respect him...

	10-08-2002 12:31									#20
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All Wonders are useless if you try to get them and fail

	11-08-2002 07:22									#21
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Not really, not in II. Just keep building.

As far as the Pyramids usefullness again, no it shouldn't be needed to the degree you actually take time to build it.
Cities on hills still have other squares that contribute.
Slower growth? Sure, but without the slower growth you should be pegging the max anyway in 2X.

	11-08-2002 08:57									#22
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Not really, not in II. Just keep building. As far as the Pyramids usefullness again, no it shouldn't be needed to the degree you actually take time to build it. Cities on hills still have other squares that contribute. Slower growth? Sure, but without the slower growth you should be pegging the max anyway in 2X.

I guess the point I'm alluding to is that if you spend time and resources going after a critical wonder but don't get it you could have used those resources building improvements to achieve the same effect.

	11-08-2002 12:11									#23
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The Collosus does nothing in 2x, the one who has Pyramids and Mike's Chapel will win

	11-08-2002 12:14									#24
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Collosus is really really helpful if you build a scc or a stc.

I'll take hg and the war academy.

Rich

	11-08-2002 19:26									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Narz the one who has Pyramids and Mike's Chapel will win

Lets try that out in an island game sometimes

	12-08-2002 02:53									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Narz The Collosus does nothing in 2x, the one who has Pyramids and Mike's Chapel will win

Your a fool

It triples intercity cash bonus's pre navigation/invention

	12-08-2002 20:23									#27
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Colossus isn't worthless. I keep reading people say it is, and I think they're nuts.

	12-08-2002 20:27									#28
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quote: Originally posted by deity What's smartfart going on about anyway? I use to respect him...

Who knows what's the deal with Brainfart?
Another question, who cares?

	13-08-2002 10:43									#29
	Got spare money?

If you don't care,why posting then?
To prove you're moron? No need...I already figured that out.

	13-08-2002 17:35									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't know what your problem is, Fart, as I don't recall any interaction or confrontation between the 2 of us in the past; but I have to assume you're another (like Eyes) who gives Ming head under his desk, since you are allowed to run your mouth so freely.