02-03-2000 11:28									#1
	DeathMatch Modern ver 1.1.1 turns Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ok the game has started.
There is a grace turn so tempting as it may be don't go and attack anyone. if you fly next to a active defender and it attacks you then tough luck.

The players are

1 -- Shavlor -- Romans -- shavlor@zxmail.com
2 -- Sophix -- Egyptains -- sophix@pmail.net
3 - Lung* - Austrialians - lungthetrue@bigpond.com
4 -- Keygen** -- Greeks -- costas_ctp@yahoo.com
5 -- Jon -- Germens -- jonfuderer@freeuk.com

* Ian Thorpe The Awsome
** Last DM Modern's winner (or almost definately)

Turn 0 --> Sophix

P.S. Yes I swicted the turns back so that the power graphs would look correct other then the date it shouldn't change anything.

	02-03-2000 18:37									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Turn 0 to Keygen

	03-03-2000 21:38									#3
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Yo, Lung. Haven't you noticed that I changed my email address to: costas_ctp@yahoo.com ?
If you have already sent the turn to that address then resend it as I haven't received any turn from DM Modern 2 or DM Modern. Send the turn of DM Modern as there is only one turn left to finish it.

As I wont have a phone for a while, I'll have to receive the turn from my work, take it to home, play it and send it the other day from work. I wont be able to play at weekends. This will last just a while. If there is any problem then inform me about it.

	06-03-2000 04:30									#4
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Sorry, evil overlord Keygen! I play my turns but don't always check the messageboard. I'll resend both of them when i get home.

	06-03-2000 14:47									#5
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Shavlor, before I proceed I would like to have the new version of the game (1.1.1) in hack mode to know exactly the opponents' forces as you do.

	06-03-2000 16:54									#6
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Turn 337 and 0 in DM Modern I and II to evil overlord Keygen scum to costas_ctp@yahoo.com . Fingers crossed this time (to make Keygen beg for mercy ).

	07-03-2000 04:55									#7
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Keygen I just sent you the lastest version. that is ver 1.1.1
Just remember that there is a grace period of one turn. have fun Evil Overlord.

	07-03-2000 15:59									#8
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I just received the file you sent Shavlor, so I'll play it today from home and I'll send it tomorrow from work. Sorry for the inconvenient way I play (overdue). It will last until next month. I don't have a phone and I'll move to another home in March. Thank's for the understanding.

	08-03-2000 17:03									#9
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I have opened the game and there are a few thing I disagree about, and I would like a second opinion. I made some calculations about offensive and defensive strenght of everyone and I present you all the results: (the first number is the offensive strenght, the second number is the defensive number. The number after the equal sign is the average between the total offensive and defensive strenght. I also haven't calculated the defensive strenght of the spies)


Shavlor: Total: 704/537 = 620,5
Land: 376/320
Air: 130/88
Sea: 198/129

Shophix: Total: 659/516 = 587,5
Land: 414/352
Air: 115/76
Sea: 130/88

Lung: Total: 653/468 = 560,5
Land: 390/284
Air: 115/76
Sea: 148/108

Keygen: Total: 636/480 = 558
Land: 378/318
Air: 130/88
Sea: 128/74

Jon: Total: 805/604 = 704,5
Land: 462/390
Air: 115/76
Sea: 228/138


I thought the first players would have reduced power but I guess this is not applicable for Shavlor and Jon is extremelly reinforced. I suggest both to reduce their strength. And why the entire Jon's navy is near me and not in two groups, one near me and one to the other side where the rest have some navy there?

I had to open the turn 0 to calculate Shophix's & Lung's strenght so I have seen where your units are. Sorry for that guys.

I am waiting for your opinion guys.
Thanks

	09-03-2000 04:42									#10
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I have made a new version every civ is pretty much balanced. I sent Keygen a copy of it and I am going to send it to everyone else.

	09-03-2000 04:57									#11
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I guess were starting again. Shavlor what kind of analysis did you do?


Hmm I don't remember Keygen complaining when he started out as one of the most powerful* in the first game

*according to (the name escapes me at the present.

	09-03-2000 05:57									#12
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What's this?!!?? Whingeing from the winner of the first DM Modern pbem?!!?! Maybe Keygen wasn't so clever in the first game after all

	09-03-2000 10:13									#13
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Ok I am going to give all of you 1 day to deicide if there is any thing wrong with the set up if so please email me or post.
Thanx Keygen for catching my mistakes.

PS: Lung why didn't you complain about not having any spies of machine gunners in your cities.

	09-03-2000 18:20									#14
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hehe, well I was newbie then and nobody knew me! It's different now and I expect more aggresive attitude from anyone in this game. I'll probably want survive if I have much stronger opponents next to me.
What would you do if you were in my place?

	10-03-2000 02:05									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Unless there is an incremental increase in strength as you go down the playing order it is bound to lead to soft targets.

I can be hit by all four on the first turn of action and find that, wherever it was placed originally, my entire fleet has been sunk and that my newly aquired airforce has been blasted out of the sky before I get a chance to use them.

I agree that we should have closer Offensive Strength, though still weighted from 1st to 5th, but I believe that I suffer a significant disadvantage unless I have an enhanced Defensive Strength over those who move before me. As the previous winner, and No4 in the playing order, I think that Keygen should also be given a far greater Defence rating.
[This message has been edited by Jon (edited March 09, 2000).]

	10-03-2000 14:27									#16
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Thanks Jon but I don't have a problem about having less strenght than the others (not to much of course. I'm ok with my current strenght). The only thing is that Shavlor and you should be a little more balanced with the rest not only for me but for them too.

	11-03-2000 14:03									#17
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Tilemacho made an analasys and came to many conclussions. Here is a part of the email he sent me.

I think I found some bugs and imbalances in the latest version 1.1.2 of
your scenario:
Bugs:
Germans start the game with 123,959,176 PW!!!
Australians get only 1,185 Gold

EMAIL from TileMacho

I think there are some imbalances in the game.
Romans:
Production 2597 Military cost= 3079
Gold 1797 buildings cost= 1272
Food 2274
Sum= 6668

I think Romans have more Land than the other Nations

Egyptians:
Production 3060 Military cost= 3079
Gold 1956 buildings cost= 1272
Food 2148
Sum= 7164

Australia:
Production 2507 Military cost= 2953
Gold 1746 buildings cost= 1182
Food 2340
Sum= 6593

Some of the army is destroyed because production is too
little...

Greece:
Production 3059 Military cost= 3238
Gold 2219 buildings cost= 1272
Food 2304
Sum= 7582...!!!

It seems to me that Greece has too much of everything....

Germany:
Production 2809 Military cost= 3266
Gold 2021 buildings cost= 1242
Food 2340
Sum= 7170

I think you should put more land instead of sea in the region of
Germany.

IN GENERAL:
1. Australia and Germany need some buildings.
2. The summary of Production + Gold + Food should not vary so much.
I think an average of 7000 is ok.

<<>>

Now we can either start this game as it is now or I could modify it and send it out again. In either case I am not going to start the second game until it is modified. Please let me know either through email or post. Thanx

	11-03-2000 15:33									#18
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Hi,
I forgot to write that the stats were taken with anarchy as government. I did this because the Romans started with anarchy instead Tyranny, which is default to everyone else.
Although the differences may not seem that big I think they are of great importance.
1. Production is mainly used to pay the army. Thus small differences in it have a great impact in production free for building. An average of 3000 seems ok to me
2. Gold is very important. Everyone should spend 1272 gold for buildings, and an additional 360 for salary = 1632 gold total. The remaining gold could make a big difference in the science output: an example: Under communism Greece has 1812 science points in turn 3 whereas Australia has only 1198, which is a difference of 51% !!! Average of 2000 seems ok
3. The differences in food weren’t that big. Average of 2300 seems ok
4. The military costs were also balanced.

[This message has been edited by Tilemacho (edited March 11, 2000).]

	13-03-2000 02:54									#19
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Ok I am going to start the first game as ver 1.1.2 and then I am going to modify it and start the next game. Jon I beleive that since there is a grace period you shouldn't need extra troops. I will start this game tomarrow unless anyone really wants to wait. In which case I will modify it and sent it out again.
Please post here if you have any comment

	13-03-2000 06:03									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Shavlor on 03-09-2000 12:13 AM PS: Lung why didn't you complain about not having any spies of machine gunners in your cities.

I thought it was the same from everyone. Had i known it wasn't, i might have *****ed and moaned all the way

	13-03-2000 06:14									#21
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OH....MY....GOD!!!!!!

I suppose that you're all wondering what disgusting word i wrote that was bad enough to warrant censorship?!??

b...i...t...c...h

C'mon, Apolyton guys! You're banning the word b.i.t.c.h??!?!?!

Fair enough - i guess there's no place for swearing on a messageboard dedicated to a game where the most fun to be had is killing and pillaging Good, family fun

	15-03-2000 11:11									#22
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OK I waited long enough on the first game it is starting no restarting. remember there is a grace period of one turn so don't go attack anyone. I am making a new topic.
As soon as I start this game I am modifing DMM for the second game and sending it out.