09-08-2002 03:23									#1
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what are the differences in you twoes parties?this is ur chance for recruiting me.dowell.

	09-08-2002 03:25									#2
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You should go to the party threads to see the differents stances ..... Not pollut the forum with this ....

	09-08-2002 03:27									#3
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P4 is specialized in pollution, with their Free Market SE (Social Engineering) choice...
We favor Planed until the Faction size cannot deal with unefficiency, then we switch to green.

	09-08-2002 03:30									#4
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Here is the P4 thread
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=58004

Everything is explained very well on the first post. You will see that we don't support ONLY FM but also Planned and Green, depending og the game situation. In one word : FLEXIBILITY - Not single minded party

	09-08-2002 03:32									#5
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and that was a nice backstab from Pande (great work ) but late me stress that we are the PK`s and with the -2 of planned we will be at -3 efficiency which means a 'murderous inefficiency'

but hey maybe this is what CCCP want to destroy all the other parties

	09-08-2002 03:44									#6
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Pande, its not your place to tell anyone what P4 stands for. you're not part!

	09-08-2002 03:45									#7
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Big offensive from P4 because of one joke. GREAT

	09-08-2002 03:51									#8
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You guys just have flexibility and propaganda, but no ideology. Are you sure you are part of the PK ? What about building Planet Busters and not use it, building a punishment sphere ?

	09-08-2002 03:54									#9
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our ideology is discover and build. you may want to read the 1st post in our thread.

	09-08-2002 03:57									#10
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You said it your self we intend not to use PB. and I have a question what is dominates the surface of Earth and Planet? water! why? because of its flexibility towards change. and we have ideology we believe people have the right to choise what they want and not what a higher power wants. we believe our citizen has to be left the choise of deciding what they want in live IF the situation permits it. we believe in a high form of education.

and what beside planned does CCCP promote? (politics, Values, future?)

	09-08-2002 05:10									#11
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quote: I have a question : what is dominates the surface of Earth and Planet? water! why? because of its flexibility towards change.

It is actually Fungus, not water. Because of its will to live.

quote: and what beside planned does CCCP promote? (politics, Values, future?)

As I said many times, we want to give marxism a new chance on Alpah Centauri : thus it is :
Democratic,
Planned until the unefficiency wastes too much, at this point we switch to Green
Knowledge, because we need to know more about Planet and Mankind in order to be happy citizens.
Eudaimonia is our supreme goal.

	09-08-2002 05:25									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword what is dominates the surface of Earth and Planet? water! why? because of its flexibility towards change.

quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak It is actually Fungus, not water. Because of its will to live.

It is dangerous to indulge too much in metaphors and not enough in facts; ultimately how we choose to govern ourselves must be decided based upon scientific principles and not idealistic desires. The mistakes of the old Earth must not be repeated again on Planet; what we must strive for is nourishment of the human mind, for it is the human mind that had dreamed of this ship which we now travel on, and it is the human mind, this great product of evolution, that shall save us from ourselves if we would only put it to use.

Academician Voltaire;
New Principles for a New World

	09-08-2002 17:53									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Pandemoniak You guys just have flexibility and propaganda, but no ideology. Are you sure you are part of the PK ? What about building Planet Busters and not use it, building a punishment sphere ?

Off topic: I'm getting the feeling that you consider every ideology that is not radical, extreme or idealistic as no true ideology. Why do you think that way?

	09-08-2002 18:15									#14
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i have to agree with Voltaire
(look flexible! <-----this is a joke!)

	09-08-2002 22:40									#15
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It is just that I do not consider "discover and build" as an ideology. An ideology is not an objective, neither a way to DO something like achieving a victory. Ideology is a way to see the world : for example, Crisler is an ideologost. Even Morgan is an ideologist when he explains that "the world is an ordonate rottenness of energy" (I'm not sure about his precise quote, I'll check and edit). Thus when all your ideas are based on "how efficient will that be...", "if we take 20% here and out it there...", etc... you are NOT ideologists.

You're managers.

Pandemoniak,
in For I have walked with Drones

	09-08-2002 22:49									#16
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Your ideology is to make sure that the citizen will be taken care of the best way possible......wel that is all our idea. but how do you achieve that is where our ideology is different. the one thing we al need to be godhuggers. or we let things go free, or control every aspect of there live. it is that what makes it different. you belief in a regulated ecomemy for this is how all the people will be the same. and that is your belief. but I belief absolute freedom is the best for the people and strive for that. besides our views on what is the way for the people to live in the best way WE are not different.

DeathByTheSword
in perparing a speech for the mirror

	09-08-2002 22:54									#17
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why always the fighting?

	09-08-2002 22:58									#18
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Pandemoniak, the English text of the quote is, "Life is merely an orderly decay of energy states."

Since not much has been said about the ACE (which is what I assume you meant), I'll summarize their policy here. Both the ACE and the CCCP (with their allies the EDP) are for rapid expansion. However, the CCCP favors peaceful expansion into unsettled territory, while the ACE favors expansion through war.

Hope this helps.

	09-08-2002 23:43									#19
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Politics supposedly is the science of governing; how is it then that it is rather more like a large play put on by well versed actors to an audience which craves entertainment? This is the flaw of democracy, for it ultimately degenerates into a game played by knaves for the amusement of fools. It is time to more away from such folly and turn to logic and reason as guides for governing. For the truly wise govern with mathematics and statistics ignoring all ideology, doing not what they believe is for the best, but what truly is for the best. When one takes all variables into account, he is able to determine (within a degree or two of mathematical certainty) what course of action will do the most good and least harm.

Academician Voltaire;
The Games We Play

	09-08-2002 23:59									#20
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I do not belief that you can with a mathematical sum up come up what is best. If that was true there would not be any war or racism in this world because it isnt best. that is the secret of out minds. We al have different beliefs of what is right or wrong and support those believe of what is right or wrong

	10-08-2002 00:10									#21
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword I do not belief that you can with a mathematical sum up come up what is best. If that was true there would not be any war or racism in this world because it isnt best. that is the secret of out minds. We al have different beliefs of what is right or wrong and support those believe of what is right or wrong

I would argue that the reason we have all these wrongs in the world is because we as a species are rather stupid. Our beliefs and opinions most of the time are not based on logic and reason. It is possible to govern in the proper way if you only find someone wise enough to govern; the problem is finding someone like that. Theoretical enlightened despotism is the perfect form of government, the problem being where are you going to find someone enlightened enough to actually govern in the first place, seeing as most people are incapable of governing themselves, let alone others.

It’s not as though we do not posses the power to prevent poverty, famine, disease, etc. (and even war) but rather that the majority are content with ignoring these problems in order to leave their own standard of living as the current level. The goal we should have in mind when governing is the greatest good for the greatest number, and science can achieve this. I’m not advocating absolute equality for all, rather more along the lines of a meritocracy where your standard of living is determined by how much you contribute to society, and there is no use in denying that some people are more capable than others, this is a biological fact, and even equal opportunity is technically impossible, but we should attempt to get as close to it as possible. Democracy works if the public is educated; unfortunately for us the vast majority is content in remaining ignorant.

	10-08-2002 00:16									#22
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power corrupts. absolute power corrupt absolutely but agree on the part that we are a stupid race DEATH TO HUMANS

	10-08-2002 00:19									#23
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword power corrupts. absolute power corrupt absolutely but agree on the part that we are a stupid race DEATH TO HUMANS

Power corrupts, absolute powers is kind of neat.

Though on a side note, don’t the leaders of the factions in SMAC technically have absolute power? I mean you can change the SE at will, toy around with it, and ultimately it’s your choice what will happen.

	10-08-2002 00:22									#24
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ABSOLUTE POWER but yes they have abslute power and they misused it for there own personnel agenda

	10-08-2002 00:31									#25
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword ABSOLUTE POWER but yes they have abslute power and they misused it for there own personnel agenda

Well maybe so, but I don’t think Zakharov misused his (granted I agree with his agenda, so that may be why ). And besides, they all thought that they were doing what was best.

	10-08-2002 00:34									#26
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Yes and that is what is ment in my post 6 up

	10-08-2002 00:39									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword Yes and that is what is ment in my post 6 up

Well who is then to determine what is “best”?

IMO if everything is considered, all the risks and benefits taken into account, you can come out with the most logical (let us not use the word best seeing as it is rather subjective) course of action.

	10-08-2002 00:42									#28
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logic is relative! so our determention of good and bad is too.
this is the reson parties are formed in the real world the have the same outlook on things

btw this is getting a little bit to much of philosophy and les gamingfun.

	10-08-2002 00:47									#29
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword logic is relative! so our determention of good and bad is too. this is the reson parties are formed in the real world the have the same outlook on things btw this is getting a little bit to much of philosophy and les gamingfun.

LOL, you’re right we’re getting slightly off topic (and by slightly I mean a lot) and heading into the realms of philosophy.

Perhaps I’m just trying to apply the scientific method and logic to human society, something that isn’t exactly logical.

	10-08-2002 01:36									#30
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There is just one thing I have to say before I go back on-topic(what is the topic anyways?) and that is this.