09-08-2002 12:30									#1
	Strategic Resources: Something new I learned today Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

It's only taken me 12 games but I've just discovered that even if you modify the terrain (eg clear a jungle) this will not later affect whether a strategic resource will appear on that tile or not. Previously I'd be leaving a lot of jungle tiles in my cities early in the game because I thought if I cut down the jungle, that tile would not be able to later produce rubber or coal when Steam Engine/Replaceable Parts is discovered. (It kind of made sense - if a tile is now grassland, how could a rubber resource appear there?) But judging by my present game it looks like the rubber will still appear on a cleared square. So, a lot of my citizens needlessly died of Jungle Disease because I hadn't been cutting down jungles early on.

Just passing on this info in case it helps newcomers to the game, not to mention other people like me who are a bit slow on the the uptake!

	09-08-2002 12:54									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

At the start of the game, the resources are placed.
Whatever happens to the game later does not infect that.

Even global warming that changes the terrain won't have the resource to be removed.

	09-08-2002 13:34									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The only time the recorces move is if over work them

	09-08-2002 13:43									#4
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy At the start of the game, the resources are placed. Whatever happens to the game later does not infect that.

Are you sure about that?

I would not expect that coal or rubber would appear on "cleared jungle squares (i.e. squares that were once jungle but were cleared to grassland) once the required tech is discovered later in the game.

Can anyone confirm this?

	09-08-2002 13:46									#5
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The Puny Celt and Deathwalker confirmed it, I think.
And I confirm it again.

And I just did it again.

and again.

	09-08-2002 14:07									#6
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Deathwalker:
As Soren stated some time ago, there is no connection between using a resource and having it disappear.

Disappearances are pure random events based on the values in the editor.

	09-08-2002 14:18									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

I confirm Puny Celt's observation, too.

OTOH, I am not sure if what Todd says is right. I believe that a resource may disappear ONLY if it is connected to your road network. THEN, it is a purely random event based on the editor setting, that's correct. But IIRC, I have never had a resource disappear, unless it was connected (the game even says "...was exhausted." How could a resource be exhausted, if it was not used?).

Todd, would you be able to find the Soren's post you mention?

	09-08-2002 15:02									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

In fact I am not. Sorry.
Either it was in a chat or I am mistaken here. Just to be on the save side I advise you to assume the latter.

But I found a post from Soren about the terrain change question:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...?threadid=33098

	09-08-2002 15:53									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

IMHO, it would be better if rubber didn't appear on cleared jungle, I would favor realism over balance on this issue. Besides, I feel the whole point of having resources is gone if one can't have, for instance, a rubber monopoly. Also, the resource-exhausted-thing shouldn't be random.

	09-08-2002 16:07									#10
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vondrack is correct. Resources won't disappear until they are connected to a road net. After this, they use the random numbers set in the editor to determine when they disappear. I've done controlled tests to prove this to my satisfaction. So, if you want to keep your rubber monopoly, disconnect some roads.

A resource when reappearing (as opposed to it being there all along and you not realizing what it was due to lack of tech), will not appear on currently inappropriate terrain.

Half an hour with the 1.29 editor can build these tests, if you want to check for yourself.

	09-08-2002 20:16									#11
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Now correct me if I am wrong, but when a resource does disappear from one spot due to overuse, another resource of the same type usually appears somewhere else within a turn or two.

I know at one point I'd created a scenerio with doubled resource occurence, and resources like oil would disappear and reappear quite a bit. I saw a number of turns that started with me losing a resource only to have a new strike discovered in the same square mear seconds later.

Also, if you look at the default values for resources in the editor, horses and rubber are not set to disappear due to overuse. All of the other strategic resources can disappear. None of the luxury resources are set to disappear, either, though someone could set them that way if they wanted to. (Which could make for an interesting scenerio game. hmmm....)

And, of course, the appearance/disappearance ratios of bonus resources aren't adjustable.

	09-08-2002 21:32									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Bleyn And, of course, the appearance/disappearance ratios of bonus resources aren't adjustable.

You can give them a disappearance ratio - change them to strategic, edit the ratio, then switch back to bonus. The ratio gets greyed out, so I've no idea if it actually is considered in the game. (I was toying with the editor, not actually setting up play)

	09-08-2002 21:39									#13
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If a resource disappears, it reappears elsewhere that very turn. Sometimes it will reappear on the same tile, which I think is hilarious.

-Arrian

	09-08-2002 21:42									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

always amusing when you get a tech that reveals a resource on map and then that resource is used up that turn before you even have a chance to do anything with it.

"hey boys, isn't that iron over there?"
"no don't look, don't look!!"
"damn, i looked. it's all used up now. blast"

	10-08-2002 02:27									#15
	Put an end to popups!

As I understand it, the resources are placed at the begining of the game so improvements will not affect their appearance (at first).

And there are always X number of a resource on the map at any given time. So when 1 disapears, it does reapear somewhere else that same turn. (Yes, it's amusing when it comes back to the same tile)

One thing I am unsure about: What about Nuclear teraforming? A nuke can make desert out of just about anything--even freshwater tiles. Would this prevent a resourse from showing up?

	10-08-2002 02:42									#16
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by steven8r One thing I am unsure about : What about Nuclear teraforming? A nuke can make desert out of just about anything--even freshwater tiles. Would this prevent a resourse from showing up?

I believe so. Since by the time you can see Uranium, you'd also be able to see every other resource, the only new resources would be ones replacing exausted ones. And I believe someone stated that reappearing resources look at the current terrain, not the terrain from the beginning of the game, a Nuke would alter the chances of resources reappearing there.

Question: What if every land tile is desert? What happense when a resource that can't appear on desert is exausted from a spot that used to not be desert, but now is because of nuking?

	10-08-2002 02:47									#17
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there was oen game where i found i had one source of coal. i started roading the tile but the coal disappeared before it finished.

	10-08-2002 20:26									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If there's finite number of resourses in each game, what determines that number? What determins the resource distribution?

I played a game once (large, continants, 12 civs) were there were 8 civs including me on a donut shaped continent. There was only one source of iron on the whole continent.... Right next to Rome

	11-08-2002 00:56									#19
	Put an end to popups!

you can look at that in the editor.. there should be 2 iron-per civ (doesn't mean YOU will have it, a civ could have 3 and you have 1. duh...)
and if 1 disapears, it should reapear somewhere.
zanthis, the other iron would all be on other continents, or on the same square as cities so you didn't notice it.
only 1 on your continent is bad luck