09-08-2002 13:35									#1
	I caught the AI cheating. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Here's the senerio, I'm the Greeks on a huge archapelago map with 16 civs, Germany's the only other civ on my island, and the difficulty level is Regent. I killed Germany's last city in 850BC, that same turn a new city respawned, I forgot to turn respawn AI players off, I hate when they respawn after killing them. Leipzig ends up in nothing but tundra. With in five turns they have a new city, Hamburg. I investigated Leipzig and they are building a warrior and have been for five turns. They also already have two spearmen fortified in their city. I also investigated Hamburg, and they also have a spearman. How did the AI get three spearmen and a settler, and move the settler and one spearman to a new city location in five turns.
Heres some screen shots and the save. Notice Leipzig's pop never goes above one.

http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...ICheat850BC.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...ICheat825BC.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...ICheat800BC.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...ICheat775BC.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...ICheat750BC.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...ICheat730BC.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~del_sol/...heat730BC-2.JPG

EDIT: Fixed links.

Attachment: alexander of the greeks, 710 bc.sav
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

Last edited by delsolsi on 09-08-2002 at 13:48

	09-08-2002 13:47									#2
	Suffering from ads?

I didn't check your links or your save but it sounds a lot like the problem I had in this thread here. The answer has to do with how the turns are designed and may surprise you.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...277#post1154160

	09-08-2002 13:51									#3
	Tired of ads?

Respawning civs get bonuses to keep them competitive. The bonuses are the bigger, the later they respawn. No point to let a civ respawn, if they can be killed instantly again, that's why they receive some defensive units. The bonuses may include even a settler. If you don't like the respawning itself or its consequences, you can turn it off with one mouseclick.

	09-08-2002 14:01									#4
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Respawning civs get bonuses to keep them competitive. The bonuses are the bigger, the later they respawn. No point to let a civ respawn, if they can be killed instantly again, that's why they receive some defensive units. The bonuses may include even a settler. If you don't like the respawning itself or its consequences, you can turn it off with one mouseclick.

I usually turn respawn off, I forgot to this time, so I've only had a couple of civs ever respawn on me. In the past I don't know about defensive units, but they have never had settles as a bonus before. This is only a small sampling to go by. I'm not too worried about it because they got a crappy location so I can just leave them there until I feal like moving some units up there and finishing them off.

	09-08-2002 16:29									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I can't confirm it 100% (without cracking a savegame nobody can), but I see civs usually respawn with 1 or 2 workers, 3 or 4 spearmen (or even riflemen later), and 1 settler, because they usually found another city within 4-5 turns.

You can't call this a cheat though. Or the whole respawning thing would be already a cheat. An exterminated civ does not respawn. The Last of the Mohicans is dead. Period.

Think respawning as the raise of another, new civilization on the place of the old wiped out one. And to make them a bit more competitive, they receive a little bonus. Given the fact, that all other civs usually have at least 4 cities at this point, one extra settler is not much.

	09-08-2002 19:52									#6
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I can't confirm it 100% (without cracking a savegame nobody can), but I see civs usually respawn with 1 or 2 workers, 3 or 4 spearmen (or even riflemen later), and 1 settler, because they usually found another city within 4-5 turns. You can't call this a cheat though. Or the whole respawning thing would be already a cheat. An exterminated civ does not respawn. The Last of the Mohicans is dead. Period. Think respawning as the raise of another, new civilization on the place of the old wiped out one. And to make them a bit more competitive, they receive a little bonus. Given the fact, that all other civs usually have at least 4 cities at this point, one extra settler is not much.

What would be nice IMO would be a list of secondary civs with similar attributes. Then on a respawn you dont get the French again, you get some other industrious/religous(?) civ which for some reason has the same UU or something. I dunno just a thought.

	09-08-2002 20:21									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, respawning civs get SEVERAL settlers. I've actually had the civs respawn right next to a scout of mine on occasion and clicked the tile they repawned on before they moved any units. They tend to have 8 defensive units, and 4 to 6 settlers.

	09-08-2002 20:45									#8
	Tired of ads?

From this thread at Civfanatics

quote: Originally posted by Mike B. FIRAXIS The details on respawning AI civs: - AI civs can only be respawned once. - For an AI civ to respawn, there must be an unclaimed, unoccupied tile on the same continent as the one where it was eliminated (by killing it's last settler or last city) and no other civs can have territory or units within a 5-tile radius of this tile. The tile must also allow cities to be built upon it (i.e., no mountains/water using default rules). The respawned civ loses the following: - All embassies/spies - All units - All colonies The respawned civ gets the following: - 1 city - 3 defensive units - 1 offensive unit - 1 settler/start unit 1 - 1 worker/start unit 2 - All bonus starting units based on difficulty level - Their gold is increased by starting_gold X 10 (i.e., 100 gold using default rules). Everything else (culture, at war, techs, etc.) remains unchanged.

Athough we found that it keeps all units it has.

	09-08-2002 21:06									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I recently had the Zulu respawn on me around 1500 AD and they came out of their new city with 2 impi, 2 longbowmen and a settler. The new city had 2 impi by the time I attacked it (2 turns from respawn).

It's possible, however, that I miscounted and there was only one longbowman. If so, this matches up perfectly with Firaxis' explanation.

-Arrian

	09-08-2002 22:49									#10
	Got spare money?

Several times I have had an AI respawn in a location a long way from my military forces - do I really want to march for 10 turns just to take down that last city or two?

Nah -- it can be more satisfying (to me) and more costly (to the AI) to negotiate a peace treaty the moment the respawning occurs -- by the time a civ reaches the respawn point, they generally have no gold or workers (or other spoils) left to offer up in a feeble effort to sate my hunger for conquest. But by letting them respawn and then making peace . . . well, I can always use an extra worker, 100 gold, and any techs that I don't already have .

For some reason, newly respawned civs seem to be willing to make peace on what one might call egregious terms . . .

Catt