10-08-2002 00:44									#1
	List of UU thread Got spare money?

With the new screenshots, I have decided to make a list of UUs for PTW. I'm not going to add screenshots. If someone else wants to, they are welcome. I just don't have the time. As more info comes, I will add it to the section. Feel free to speculate/flame.

Vikings: Bezerker (?/?/?) Amphibious Assault Guess 5/2/1 Upgraded Medieval Infantry
Spanish: Conquistador (5/3/3) Upgraded ?
Mongols: Keshik (4/2/2) Upgraded ?
Korea: Hwatcha (?/?/?/?/?) Guess Replaces cannon, requires no saltpeter
Celts: Gaillic Swordsman (4/2/2) Upgraded Medieval Infantry
Arabs: ? (?/?/?) Upgraded ? Some sort of ninja?
Carthagenians: ? (?/?/?) Upgraded ?
Ottomans: ? (?/?/?) Upgraded ?

Last edited by Lawrence of Arabia on 26-08-2002 at 23:25

	10-08-2002 01:12									#2
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I'm willing to bet the UU's for the three remaining civs from your original post will be:

Arabs: Mameluke, probably replaces knight
Carthagiians: Some kind of ancient elephant
Ottomans: Jannisery, probably replaces musketman

	10-08-2002 06:50									#3
	Re: List of UU thread Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Vikings: Bezerker (?/?/?) Guess 5/2/1 Upgraded Medieval Infantry

I thought the Berzerker was an UU of the swordsman with anphibous, but I guess that MI makes sence too.

As for Carthage, I think it's safe to say that its some sort of elephant.

	10-08-2002 14:44									#4
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quote: Originally posted by GoodFella I'm willing to bet the UU's for the three remaining civs from your original post will be: Arabs: Mameluke, probably replaces knight Carthagiians: Some kind of ancient elephant Ottomans: Jannisery, probably replaces musketman

Mamelukes were, in reality, NOT Arabs. They were Circassians in the service of the ruler of Egypt.

Carthaginians should be a special swordsman.


It remains pathetic that Firaxis is calling a small group of thugs who never fought against another major power, the "Conquistadors". All they did was massacre native peoples and steal their gold, and then fight each other. Firaxis continues to make a mockery of History.

	10-08-2002 19:52									#5
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And Coracle continues to make a mockery of himself.

Can't wait till he gets banned, like on civfanatics.

	11-08-2002 08:20									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle It remains pathetic that Firaxis is calling a small group of thugs who never fought against another major power, the "Conquistadors". All they did was massacre native peoples and steal their gold, and then fight each other. Firaxis continues to make a mockery of History.

Actually, the "conquistadores" kind of military unit fought against the Moors during the "Reconquista". But they were not known as "conquistadores" at that time.

	11-08-2002 09:47									#7
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i know mamelukes weren't arabic, and I would like a tercio UU, I'm just putting down what I think is most likely to be released from Firaxis.

	11-08-2002 14:33									#8
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OK, we both want the Tercio.

BTW, the Hwatcha. How can it REPLACE cannon when it was purely anti-personnel with no hitting power capable of knocking down walls? It also certainly did not have the same range either as a cannonball, be it solid shot or shell. Just add it to cannon.

	11-08-2002 15:13									#9
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Coracle is at fault here.

The mamelukes may have not been of arab origin but they served in the arab armies of the time.They were essentially a caste of warrior-slaves who gradually rose to power and even took control of Egypt.Mameluke Egypt had the strongest army of its time and it was with this army that the Mongol hordes were stopped and the remnants of the crusader states were driven out.They even fought against Napoleon.

The Carthaginian Elite Unit should be the "Sacred Band".
The Carthaginian army rellied solely on mercenaries of Lybian and later Spanish origin.However it possesed a permanent elite trained force of native Phoenicians soldiers called by the Greeks "The Sacred Band".
They had white feathers and shields and fought in a phalanx formation.

	11-08-2002 22:02									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Coracle OK, we both want the Tercio. BTW, the Hwatcha. How can it REPLACE cannon when it was purely anti-personnel with no hitting power capable of knocking down walls? It also certainly did not have the same range either as a cannonball, be it solid shot or shell. Just add it to cannon.

If you look at the FIRAXIS graphic which is on this site, you can see that the Hwacha is not launching arrows, but some sort of solid missle.

Hwacha

	11-08-2002 22:12									#11
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The Conquistadores were an excellent choice. They took back Spain from the Moors, and conquered vast portions of Southern and Central America (as well as Aztec-held Mexico), making it all the way up to the Mighty Mississip'.

Er...the Sacred Band was a regiment from Thebes in Greece, actually.

	11-08-2002 23:44									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

Personally I think that the Carthagians should have a mercenary unit. It would require 2 gold to support and would be powerful. This a good idea that takes history in to account because the Carthagians relied heavly on merceniares.

	12-08-2002 03:05									#13
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Er...the Sacred Band was a regiment from Thebes in Greece, actually.

Right. It was the most militant group of gays in history.

	12-08-2002 15:07									#14
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You are wrong History Guy

The "official" Sacred Band was indeed Theban.It formed the backbone of the Theban citizen army.

However as i wrote, this is how the Greeks called the Carthaginian elites.My ancestors had the habit of naming elite regiments in general "Sacred Band". A habit that remains still.(Sacred band In 1821,Sacred band in 1942).

Agathocles of Syrracouse in his Carthaginian Campaigns
faced the Sacred Band of Carthage numerous times, before finally decimating them at the Battle of Tunes in 310Bc.Even when General Hanno fell, these white dressed Carthaginian Elites refused to surrender and fell to a man.

As for the elephants which many are proposing,
these were not even used in the Punic wars(except the first one). During his famous cross of the Alps, Hannibal lost all his elephants but one, which he rode himself.

	12-08-2002 21:22									#15
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the idea of mercenaries for carthage sounds really good... I think they should have a low production cost... and should cost 2-3 gold per turn... whether or not the unit limit is reached.

	12-08-2002 23:40									#16
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I'd like mercenaries to be included, but work slightly differently (and now I'll proceed to steal liberally from ideas being used in Medieval: Total War).

Mercenaries should be available in regions where ongoing conflicts are occurring. There could be a building pre-requisite for hiring mercs. However, they should not be "built", they should just be hanging around available for immediate hire and use. Their cost should be somewhat prohibitive: they should have a fixed price to hire in gold (such as gold equal to some fraction of the number of shields required to produce the same type of unit) and their upkeep should also be expensive (3 - 5 gpt). The type of mercs available in an area should be based on the average tech of civs in the area. (note that this would lead to situations in which you could actually hire mercs above your current capability to build if you were behind your neighbors in the tech race... )

Better yet, I'll just wait a couple weeks and play Medieval: Total War.

	13-08-2002 00:51									#17
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Carthage will probably get an elephant UU, but hat I'd like to see is a Galley UU.

	27-08-2002 00:24									#18
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Whats this ninja unit in the new avault picts?

	27-08-2002 02:25									#19
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Wasn't there mention of a feudal Japan scenario?

This from the PtW article:

"We know people are going to want to do a WWII scenario, we know that there's interest in medieval Japan and in dinosaurs," says Morris, "what we wanted to do was liberate them from having to wait for the fan artists to create this content before started on (their own scenarios). So, we provided them with these unit sets that allow them to hit the ground running in these genres that we know they're interested in."

	27-08-2002 03:46									#20
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Does anyone else think that its odd that certain civs should get UUs that should require resources. It's bizzare that one needs horses for cavalry, but you don't need ivory for a War Elephant.

It obviously isn't fair for a civ to have a UU that it might not be able to use because of the lack of a resource, but it also seems odd to include such units in the first place. If the Indians are stuck in the arctic tundra, why are they using War Elephants? If this isn't supposed to be a replay of history, you'd think that they could assign UUs to civs randomly based on starting locations, so that the Chinese might end up with Chariots instead of the Egyptians if they start in a drier area.

Any opinions on this?

	27-08-2002 05:00									#21
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quote: Originally posted by jsw363 Does anyone else think that its odd that certain civs should get UUs that should require resources. It's bizzare that one needs horses for cavalry, but you don't need ivory for a War Elephant. It obviously isn't fair for a civ to have a UU that it might not be able to use because of the lack of a resource, but it also seems odd to include such units in the first place. If the Indians are stuck in the arctic tundra, why are they using War Elephants? If this isn't supposed to be a replay of history, you'd think that they could assign UUs to civs randomly based on starting locations, so that the Chinese might end up with Chariots instead of the Egyptians if they start in a drier area. Any opinions on this?

if its on tundra, think of them as war mammoths.

I like the fact that there is some variety to the UU's. Granted, it takes luck (bad) to not have iron or horses, but it does happen, and if you happen to be the Indians, then you are lucky. Instead of getting an attack/defense/movement bonus, they are resource free, which makes them interesting to play as, less resource dependant than other civs.

It would be interesting to be randomly assigned a UU or given one dependant on initial terrain, and just figure it out when you receive a tech. But I think that would get old after awhile.

	27-08-2002 07:14									#22
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Keshik : treats hills as regular terrain for movement

	28-08-2002 02:11									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Whats this ninja unit in the new avault picts?

hi ,

maybe its an early start special force unit , ...

or its part of a mod or scenario , ....

here it is

have a nice day

	28-08-2002 02:53									#24
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Didn't Firaxis say that there's going to be a Japanese tile/unitset in PtW; or am I just thinking of the Roman and WWII ones?

	28-08-2002 09:37									#25
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No, there was mention made of it several different times.

	28-08-2002 10:29									#26
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If so, then I think we found our Ninja/assassin spot.

	29-08-2002 03:00									#27
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quote: Originally posted by jsw363 Does anyone else think that its odd that certain civs should get UUs that should require resources. It's bizzare that one needs horses for cavalry, but you don't need ivory for a War Elephant.

Ivory is a luxury resource. That's not a reason for itself, but it would be odd for a whole resource to be only useable by one civ. In addition, seeding rules are different between different types of resource. Finally, the whole advantage of the elephant is that it requires no resources... if you change this, you will have to find another advantage for the elephant.

quote: It obviously isn't fair for a civ to have a UU that it might not be able to use because of the lack of a resource, but it also seems odd to include such units in the first place. If the Indians are stuck in the arctic tundra, why are they using War Elephants? If this isn't supposed to be a replay of history, you'd think that they could assign UUs to civs randomly based on starting locations, so that the Chinese might end up with Chariots instead of the Egyptians if they start in a drier area.

This was and is the original idea against "predestined" UUs, ie why the English should not get a man of war if they start in the desert. Although more realistic, this would be harder to code... I agree with you and I agitated for this before release, but Firaxis chose not to do this.

	29-08-2002 03:27									#28
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Wasn't there a CtP2 mod (medieval mod perhaps) wherein certain units were designated as UU, but were not initially bound to a specific civ. The first civ to discover the activating tech first would have a % chance of claiming that Unit as their own. If they succeed, then no other civ could build that unit and the successful civ could not gain another UU. If the civ failed, then the next civ to discover the tech would have a chance, and so on, until all civ's had discovered that tech.

	29-08-2002 21:21									#29
	Re: List of UU thread Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia With the new screenshots, I have decided to make a list of UUs for PTW. I'm not going to add screenshots. If someone else wants to, they are welcome. I just don't have the time. As more info comes, I will add it to the section. Feel free to speculate/flame. Vikings: Bezerker (?/?/?) Amphibious Assault Guess 5/2/1 Upgraded Medieval Infantry Spanish: Conquistador (5/3/3) Upgraded ? Mongols: Keshik (4/2/2) Upgraded ? Korea: Hwatcha (?/?/?/?/?) Guess Replaces cannon, requires no saltpeter Celts: Gaillic Swordsman (4/2/2) Upgraded Medieval Infantry Arabs: ? (?/?/?) Upgraded ? Some sort of ninja? Carthagenians: ? (?/?/?) Upgraded ? Ottomans: ? (?/?/?) Upgraded ?

This from PC.IGN, as reported at CivFanatics:

New Civs:

quote: Carthaginians: Commercial/Industrius, UU is Numidian Infantry, spearman with increased attack/defense and no special resources Koreans: Commercial/Scientific, UU is Hwacha, cannon with increased bombard and requires less special resources Mongols: Militaristic/Expansionist, UU is Keshik, cheaper Knight that requires less special resources Vikings: Militaristic/Expansionist, UU is Berserk, Longbowman with increased attack, defense, AND amphibious attack Spanish: Religious/Commercial, UU is Conquistador, weak, cheap, requires almost no special resources, treat all terrain as roads, and doesn't replace anything Celts: Religious/Militaristic, UU is Gallic Swordsman, swordsman with faster movement Arabs: Expansionist/Religious, UU is Ansar Warrior, replaces Knights, and are faster and cheaper Turks: Industrial/Scientific, UU is Siphai, a better attacking Cavalry

The Viking UU is Berserk, not Berserker. Arabs is Ansar Warrior, Ottomans (listed as Turks) is Sipahi (misspelled in list); Carthage is Numidian Infantry (note Infantry and NOT Cav.)