10-08-2002 00:55									#1
	The SMC's Revised Plans For the French Front Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Here is the basic setup for the assaults. The city of Rouen moved the LZ a bit, and makes each galley trip 1 turn longer. It also means we have to violate French territory for 1 turn each time we make a drop or come back. I'll let the Diplomatic people handle when to declare war but I hope these Border invasions will still be during times of peace.

We only have 2 galleys, and that means a max transport of 4. We are moving 8 Swordsmen to the LZ, meaning we have to make two trips.

Here is the frist trip and the # of the turn the move will end on.

Red is the gallys (gallies?)
Green is the unloaded Troops.
Blue is the Orleans stack.

In this first image, you see the Galley stack moving 3 times and unloading 4 swordsmen SW SW of Rouen. Those two swordsmen head NW NW after landing, and end up there 5 turns after the start of the plan.

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Last edited by Inverse Icarus on 10-08-2002 at 02:21

	10-08-2002 00:57									#2
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next, we see the galley go back (take 3 turns again), and load up the other 4 Swordsmen.

The troops that landed continue on their mission.

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	10-08-2002 01:00									#3
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Final stage of the set up, the Galley goes back (another 3 turns) and drops off the other 4 Swordsmen.

on the 7th Turn, the stack in Timeline (archers and a spearman) starts marching towards their destination.

All the troops end up on French borders in 11 turns. Then (hopefully) we declare war, and march through their borders for 2 turns, and attack.

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	10-08-2002 01:35									#4
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here are the "in border" manuevers.

The Paris stack (8 swordsmen) is moving on mountains. 100% bonus for defense makes them have a defense of 4, basically making any enemy swordsmen / horsemen pre-emptive attack nothing to worry about. The stack approaches Paris from the south, bypassing any river near Paris, taking the smallest amount of "in border" turns.

The Orleans stack (5 Archers 1 Spearman, I'd like another spearman if possible) is on a jungle for a turn, giving the Spearmen a defense of 2.5. It then moves onto the open grassland with no defensive bonus, and horses. Worst case Scenario: all archers die (not likely). Spearmen can Pillage the road and deny the French horses.

I suggest doing the Orleans assault first, then Paris. I've noticed the game "helps" capitals a little bit when it comes to defense, and I dotn want the capital to move to Orleans and have to take it twice.

If we acquire Engineering before we start the war (or before the 14th turn really) we may want to move some of the unused swordsmen NE rather than N (into Paris). We could move swordsmen into Orleans in 2 turn if the need be from that tile.

MY question is where will the Capital move? I'm not to good at predicting that. Will it go to Rheims because it was founded before Marseilles? or will it go to Marseilles because it has more culture?

IF it goes to Rheims, we'd have to take it. It's an objective city.

Marseilles is just a hopeful objective.

(sorry for the delay, 'poly's acting up)

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	10-08-2002 02:22									#5
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you may now reply.

thanks

	10-08-2002 02:29									#6
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I am pretty sure the capital will flip to Marseilles due to is culture and proximity to wines.

A solid plan. (and reason for you to run again. hint, hint.)

	10-08-2002 02:30									#7
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I don't see anything wrong with it.

	10-08-2002 02:32									#8
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For the Capitol, they could choose Lyon in a more central position than Marseilles and a fortiori Rheims.

	10-08-2002 02:45									#9
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oh, and i'm hoping for the aquisition of Rouen as well (part of the original objectives of unimpeeded access to Abananaba Minor).

	10-08-2002 02:52									#10
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For that, once we have Paris, we have better ask for Avignon. This would block the strait and give access to the Northern Ocean. Anyway, Rouen would be isolated.

	10-08-2002 02:58									#11
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Are we leaving Rheims and Marseilles alone? I think that taking both cities would give us a good, defensible border with Greece, with the river.

	10-08-2002 03:12									#12
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Is there a way to shorten the plan ? 14 turns is a long time, and I fear the French will have pikemen by then

EDIT : something constructive :
If we attack Paris with only 4 swordsmen, the attack will be in 8 turns. If we move our archers in Timeline to go to Orleans, the attack will be in 7 turns. If we move our other swordsmen in Termina with the second galley Trip, they'll attack Rouen in 9 turns.
Maybe we could make turn 9 the start of our blitzkrieg, or are the odds too low to win the battle of Paris with only 4 swordsmen ?

Last edited by Spiffor on 10-08-2002 at 03:19

	10-08-2002 03:18									#13
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The plan is good. Oh, and grassland tiles (and everything else that's not mountains, hills, jungle or forest) give you a 10% defensive bonus. Look in the civ3mod.bic.

	10-08-2002 03:24									#14
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I think 14 turns are to many. It's better to produce a blitzkrieg and we attack Paris only with 4 swordsmen.

	10-08-2002 03:26									#15
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT For that, once we have Paris, we have better ask for Avignon. This would block the strait and give access to the Northern Ocean. Anyway, Rouen would be isolated.

I was about to suggest that we make a grab for some land in the island near Greece's shore when I realized that they've already settled it...
Too bad. It could have been nice to have two islands. We could name the other Gilligan's Island!

	10-08-2002 03:38									#16
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Nice plan . Well thought out, and very intelligent. If it all goes through well (which I can't imagine why it wouldn't, unless France manages to get pikeman magically), you should def. run again.

-- adaMada

	10-08-2002 03:46									#17
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I already named the other island: Sky Isle

	10-08-2002 03:46									#18
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I don't see the French getting Pikemen before that, but thats just my expierence with them. They usualy go for gunpowder (engineering->invention->etc).

And 8 swordsmen is a must. After we take Paris they'll definately go for a counter attack. They probably have some swordsmen lying around.

	10-08-2002 03:51									#19
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I'd say 70% that the capital moves to Marseilles.

Do you plan to take Rhiems and Chartes by force if they are not given up. (sorry if thats a stupid question)

Also if you have to take all 4 cities by force will you consider suing for peace for the cluster of 3 cities to the west

	10-08-2002 04:00									#20
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX I don't see the French getting Pikemen before that, but thats just my expierence with them. They usualy go for gunpowder (engineering->invention->etc). And 8 swordsmen is a must. After we take Paris they'll definately go for a counter attack. They probably have some swordsmen lying around.

I agree on the 8 swordsmen. In fact, though I am overcautious, I'd probably use more -- I'd rather have overwhelming force and be totally safe.

As for Pikemen, it's something we can't control, so I say we just hope...

-- adaMada

	10-08-2002 04:11									#21
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Oh uh...
if Paris expands to 6 population, we're screwed... it'll have the effect of a wall (+50% defensive bonus).
Perhaps we should change the plan and attack Paris ASAP.

	10-08-2002 04:22									#22
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Paris has been building the pyramids since ancient times and so it is unlikely that it has pikemen there and I can't see them switching from the Pyramids to pikemen.

I like the plans as they are but think intelligence gathering of all objective cityies and not just Paris should happen sooner rather than later as it may influence plans.

	10-08-2002 04:24									#23
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OPD - Spearmen upgrade to Pikemen.

	10-08-2002 04:50									#24
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker OPD - Spearmen upgrade to Pikemen.

As I said it has been building the Pyramids since ancient times so I doubt very much that it, or any other French city, has barracks.

Perhaps a wager is in order my Jedi friend. It would make the war more interesting.

	10-08-2002 06:32									#25
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OOOOO

GAMBLING!!!!

Sign of true civilization!!!

	10-08-2002 08:29									#26
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I see a problem. When you end a turn with a unit NEXT to an enemy city, I believe you are given withdraw right away order, so you wouldn't be able to proceed. Thus I suggest the following boat movement:

W, NW, NW (turn)
W, SW (turn)
SW, SW, SW -> unload WEST

This will end us with the boat in their territory 2 turns in a row, and they will demand an immediate withdraw, and actually speed up our process.

	10-08-2002 08:49									#27
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i dont think you're right with that withdraw policy hrrmm

	10-08-2002 08:54									#28
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Test it out in a non-apolytonian game. I am pretty damn sure it's true for land units, but no clue about sea units.

	11-08-2002 02:12									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Oh uh... if Paris expands to 6 population, we're screwed... it'll have the effect of a wall (+50% defensive bonus). Perhaps we should change the plan and attack Paris ASAP.

hi ,

, we could starve them a bit , .....

and we are going "down-hill" , well mountain , that should play in our hands , ...

have a nice day

	11-08-2002 02:41									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

How do you suggest we do that? Cover all their food-producing tiles with units so they can't use those tiles? Even if we had enough swordsmen for the job, it would still take a while before they starve back to 5 population. This is not a very good idea at all.

Epistax: using imeediate withdrawal in our favor is a very bright idea! I'm somewhat worried about its diplomatic effects though. I just hope we don't annoy the other civs too much...