10-08-2002 21:26									#1
	Do privateers blockade ports? Put an end to popups!

Say my good friends, the Indians, have but one source of salt peter. Say it's isolated on a tiny island and connected to the rest of India by a port. Say India and I are allied in a war against China. Say I don't neccisarily want my good friends, the Indians, to win this war...

Can I send privateers to blockade the Indian port and prevent salt peter from being sent to the rest of India? Is there anyway that the AI will know who's responsible? The indian city has 2 water tiles adjacent to it and around 6 water tiles in its city radius. How many ships do I need to blockade and where do they need to be positioned? Do I just need to have one ship in anywere its city radius to blockade or do I need one ship on each tile adjacent to the city?

	10-08-2002 22:26									#2
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Last edited by candybo on 10-08-2002 at 23:20

	11-08-2002 00:00									#3
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As I understand it you could do this. They wouldn't know who was responsble (though what 'know' means for AI players is obviously problematic). If they sent ships and sank your Privateers it would not affect your relations. To do it you would need a ship in each harbour exit tile, so in this case two (hence harbours in promontory cities are much more resistant to it than normally placed cities, which is a bit of a nonsense IMO). This is one of the rare cases where the blockade ability of Privateers might be usable.

	11-08-2002 02:57									#4
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They know! If they have the intelligence agency, they really know. If you (or the AI) spy on a civ's troop positions all units including the hidden nationality units show up.

	11-08-2002 06:23									#5
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Privateers blockading ports, whether hidden or not, is entirely unrealistic and never has happened in history.

Privateers were built to attack merchant ships on trade routes - impossible in the game.

BTW, privateers are not and never have been pirates. That's entirely different.

As for whether or not they could do it in the game mechanics, I don't know. But as Cyclonic said, it is nonsense, and rather impracticable.

Could the AI do it to us?? If the port is blockaded WOULDN'T WE KNOW? Or am I just being logical in a system that defies logic? Isn't it logical that if a port was blockaded, wouldn't we be informed in some way?

So now you have me wondering. The AI cheats so much maybe it is now secretly blockading ports! I doubt it as when I do send out naval units I rarely encounter a privateer.

	11-08-2002 10:50									#6
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quote: Privateers blockading ports, whether hidden or not, is entirely unrealistic and never has happened in history. Privateers were built to attack merchant ships on trade routes - impossible in the game. BTW, privateers are not and never have been pirates. That's entirely different.

That's not true Coracle;

http://blackbeard.eastnet.ecu.edu/qarhist.html

Blackbeard blockaded the port of Charleston SC and successfuly extorted money, supplies and medicine from them. Privateers and Pirates were nearly indistingishable. The only difference being wether they attack the enemy of the state they were commissioned to attack or attacking any availible target. It may have been uncommon for pirates/privateers to blockade ports, but it did happen in history and is certainly not unrealistic.

quote: As for whether or not they could do it in the game mechanics, I don't know. But as Cyclonic said, it is nonsense, and rather impracticable

It's not impratical. This is on a pangea map and india has very few coastal citys. I doubt they are maintaining a large navy. Additionaly, they are fighing a war with china so any navy they have has it's attention on china. Without salt peter, Caravels are the best navel unit they could send to break the blockade. Caravels 1/2/2 are equaly matched with privateers 2/1/3. Privateers are cheap to build and I can send more than I need to blockade so if some lose, there are more to take their place unitl new one arive.

quote: Could the AI do it to us?? If the port is blockaded WOULDN'T WE KNOW? Or am I just being logical in a system that defies logic? Isn't it logical that if a port was blockaded, wouldn't we be informed in some way? So now you have me wondering. The AI cheats so much maybe it is now secretly blockading ports! I doubt it as when I do send out naval units I rarely encounter a privateer

Privateers are not subs, they are not invisible. AFAIK, the AI does not use privateers the same way it doesn't use artillery. I'm assuming that if the AI did use privateers, they would block a port just like any other military vessal, only we wouldn't be able to see what civ controls it.

	11-08-2002 14:49									#7
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Privateers are not subs in that the latter is invisible. But the real PURPOSE of both types of vessels was the same: not to attack enemy warships but his merchant shipping.

OK, if privateers blockaded we would have to see them. True. Never would happen in reality as they were all relatively light ships no match for any actual naval vessels. But, again, I rarely see them in the game. I guess the AI also knows that are kind of useless.

	13-08-2002 10:58									#8
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quote: Privateers are not subs in that the latter is invisible. But the real PURPOSE of both types of vessels was the same: not to attack enemy warships but his merchant shipping.

Civ is a game of representation. If goods originate at one city with a harbor and transfer to another city with a harbor, it is assumed that the goods are transported by ship. If parking a privateer outside of one city's harbor prevents the goods from being transported, it is assumed that the privateer is attacking the enemy's merchant shipping.