28-01-2003 00:30									#61
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Native units are really only useful when you're lacking in weapon technology, and if you've been doing your job with probe teams, that should never be the case for long.

Does anyone know if you can capture LoCs? I've never done it.

	28-01-2003 01:22									#62
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I find LoCs useful because they can capture bases, which is good for mopping up out of the way seabases.

Plus, they never have to refuel, fully heal in fungus, don't need support in fungus (I think), can only be attacked by SAMs or interceptors, and can move across any terrain quickly.

Playing as the aliens, I like to keep a group of 4-5 around because so many sea colony pods get generated when you take a base (if you aren't using gas). LoCs can scout around and find any that escape.

Unfortunately, they come pretty late in the game when most psi users are overshadowed by the human weapons and abilities.

	28-01-2003 06:00									#63
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Yeah, it's generally agreed that Choppers plus Locusts are nearly unbeatable. All you need is a chopper to clear the base defences with multiple attacks, and then a LoC to occupy the base and then obliterate or garrison it as necessary.

I thought this was so unbalanced that in all of my games now I disable the chopper chassis altogether, and I also disable the Cloudbase Academy.

	28-01-2003 07:34									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 ...can only be attacked by SAMs or interceptors...

Not true. Any ground unit can attack (and sometimes capture the native variety!) a LoC over(on) a land square. I'm pretty sure that naval units can likewise attack LoCs over(on) a sea square. I don't recall what the effect of a land unit attempting an attack over(on) a sea square, probably requires SAM to do so. Likewise probably with naval units attacking one over(on) a land square.

The only part of the quoted statement that is generally true is that LoCs outside of a base (like any SAM chopper) can only be attacked by air with a unit similarly equiped with SAM capability.

	28-01-2003 08:03									#65
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This brings a question to mind about gravships. Air units but can they also be attacked by land or naval units like locusts?

One thing about gravships is that unlike locusts, they can capture multiple bases on one turn. Capture ends the locust's turn, but the gravship can capture base after base after base. Kinda neat since their range is what? 24?

Of course one hardly ever uses gravships except in custom challenge games where the AI is souped up and a military conquest is the only victory condition.

	28-01-2003 08:20									#66
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One nice thing to have is a dozen elite cruiser foil probes when you have built the MCC.

	28-01-2003 08:24									#67
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Capturing a base ends a Locust's turn?

Surprises me!

I thought they could carry on flying afterwards.

	28-01-2003 08:49									#68
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Well, I could be wrong. I am mostly drunk when I play.

	28-01-2003 08:51									#69
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Come to think of it, I am almost always drunk. As a rule of thumb you should take my comments with a shot of bourbon.

	28-01-2003 12:57									#70
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I'd like to make it known that I never play drunk, eveb though I an pretty drunk right now.

Capturing a base never ends anythings turn. Attacking does!

In all the years I have played, I have never built a gravship. At the moment, I find that very odd.

	28-01-2003 13:08									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose Not true. Any ground unit can attack (and sometimes capture the native variety!) a LoC over(on) a land square. I'm pretty sure that naval units can likewise attack LoCs over(on) a sea square. I don't recall what the effect of a land unit attempting an attack over(on) a sea square, probably requires SAM to do so. Likewise probably with naval units attacking one over(on) a land square. The only part of the quoted statement that is generally true is that LoCs outside of a base (like any SAM chopper) can only be attacked by air with a unit similarly equiped with SAM capability.

Paragraphs 1 and 2 seem mutually exclusive. Please clarify.

	28-01-2003 13:59									#72
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He's drunk, that's all.

	28-01-2003 14:22									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 Paragraphs 1 and 2 seem mutually exclusive.

Not at all.

What he means is that while any land unit can attack a LoC on land, a normal air unit can't bring an air-to-air attack, not even on a LoC, you need anyway a SAM jet/chopper/gravship.


___
Mong said tho "like any SAM chopper".

I'll have to check, but from my last extensive air-attacks testing session (~1 year ago) I was convinced that ANY chopper could be attacked by ANY unit (with the land-sea unit/tile exclusion), regardless of the chopper being SAM.

i.e. a normal jet can attack a normal chopper anywhere, and a normal jet can as well attack a SAM chopper anywhere, you don't need a SAM jet for that.
The only difference would be how the chopper defends, and which defender the game chooses in its stack.

I'll verify this again.

	28-01-2003 18:32									#74
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By God I checked and you guys are right. When playing sober LOC's turns do not end when capturing a base.

What other unit's attributes change like that when the human is sober?

	29-01-2003 03:18									#75
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick By God I checked and you guys are right. When playing sober LOC's turns do not end when capturing a base. What other unit's attributes change like that when the human is sober?

I've noticed that the Planet's reaction to my Planetbustering all the other factions into the stone age seems much less severe after I've had about 12 beers. I suppose then the inverse must be true.

	29-01-2003 09:40									#76
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Firaxis had included a user-sensitive algorithm that magically jacks up the AI after the human player has had a few drinks. They react much quicker and with considerably greater coordination to my most fiendish feints and daring dodges.

There was one time during play that I was controlling a Planet Buster when drunk and the AI managed, with devilish cunning, to seed the fungus near their base with native mindworms. These things are very difficult to notice when sober, but when I was drunk I swear they were cloaked.

Something to think about.