11-08-2002 11:46									#1
	Prepoll Discussion: Amending CoL for Turnthreads Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

There has been much dicussion over turnchats and turnthreads, and it has come to the point where we should begin discusing an amendment.

I am proposing an amendment that will make turnthreads the official means of playing the demo game.

	11-08-2002 11:48									#2
	The Proposed Amendment Inflate your Upload Space

Amendment: At least once a week the president shall creat a thread for the purpose of which is for determining how the next five turns shall be played. Minister shall give orders and citizens may discuss decions, give suggestions, etc.

Should an event come up during the game before the five turns are finished that requires the advice of a minister or serious polling of the population, the president shall cease playing.




Please criticize, suggest changes, comment on, etc.

	11-08-2002 11:55									#3
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How about allowing flexibility between chats and threads.

That way the govt can go whichever way suits the current exec the most. That may lead to higher participation in government.

	11-08-2002 11:58									#4
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I think notyoueither has a good point. This is a democracy you gotta leave it its breathing room.

	11-08-2002 12:05									#5
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Well hang on. The purpose of a turnthread is to announce the orders to everyone before they happen. This in my mind is good. A turnchat is where the citizens can "see" the orders as they are being completed, and they don't necessarily hear the specifics beforehand, except through polls.

How about an amendment that states there must be at least one thread per week that details the orders given, as well as the report that details what actually happened. Turnchats are not mentioned officially and are thus optional. A Prez can then hold a turnchat when they want, and if no-one turns up, it is as if the chat doesn't happen, and the prez plays on their own. Thius seems to fit with the growing movement towards stopping the chats. There is no need to prevent chats as long as there is an alternative method of informing the populace of what happens.

	11-08-2002 12:13									#6
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A good 'constitutional principle' might read like this...

The game will be played according to directions given by ministers to the President on a regular, announced basis. The president will play the game as close to those directions as possible and will stop to return to consult with the ministers and the people when situations arrise that are no longer covered by those directions.

That is general. That allows chats, or threads, or ouija boards if those are accepted in 100 years (RL years).

	11-08-2002 12:13									#7
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Just announce that there will be a turn chat. What happens happens we cant predict everything all we can do it watch and use our citizens brilliant minds to make the best decisions on certain courses of action and if there not at the turn chat to voice there opinion then that is there problem they will have to deal with it later.

	11-08-2002 12:25									#8
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither A good 'constitutional principle' might read like this... The game will be played according to directions given by ministers to the President on a regular, announced basis. The president will play the game as close to those directions as possible and will stop to return to consult with the ministers and the people when situations arrise that are no longer covered by those directions. That is general. That allows chats, or threads, or ouija boards if those are accepted in 100 years (RL years).

I think we need something in there about announcing the orders - what am I saying?!?! More clutter. Well, it should be that the Ministers or Prez/VP post the final orders given in a kind of turnthread, for the people to scrutinize, for the Historians' reference etc. If this is neglected accidentally during a term, we should just prompt the Prez to post said orders, but, since we always go for adding amendments rather than having a less formal thread of responsibilities for each Minister, perhaps it would be best if we added that bit in as well.

	11-08-2002 12:42									#9
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The game will be played according to publically expressed directions given by ministers to the president on a regular, announced basis. The president will play the game as close to those directions as possible and will stop to return to consult with the ministers and the people when situations arise that are no longer covered by those directions

/edited to substitute 'expressed' for 'delivered'
/Edit fixed a typo

Last edited by notyoueither on 12-08-2002 at 01:15

	11-08-2002 19:09									#10
	Remove this text

I'm still not sure if we need to foce turnthreads, but te 'turnchat' rhetoric should be removed or redefined in the COL.

	11-08-2002 19:25									#11
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Epistax is right :
There is nothing official about playing the game in turnchats specifically, there should be nothing about playing turnthreads specifically. What we need is flexibility, for the game to be as smooth as possible.

Also, we must experiment with turnthreads before replacing them definitely.

Removing all turnchat rethorics from the CoL is a good idea. But putting a turnthread amendment is a bad idea : the officials will do the most convenient, no need to bind them about this

But NYE's proposal is excellent, because it doesn't force anybody to do turnchats, turnthreas, telephone or whatever.