11-08-2002 22:05									#1
	Naval Power...... with picutres!(AU 103 Spoiler included) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Oops, this should have the picture in it. (gonna try to delete the original post, dont know i f I have the authority to delete my own posts though.)

This picture proves the value of naval forces, once you eliminate the opposing civs navy (which most comp civs and players keep rather small) your free to destroy many centures worth of worker and city improvements. (The Babylonian continent I surrounded was covered in railroads, irrigation, and mines)



Many people in MP would rather give into any tech/money/reasource demands made of them then have to deal with losing centuries worth of work in the cities and surrounding countryside. If they refuse the use of the fleet to cut their rail lines will make it impossible for them to concentrate their land forces against any land forces you bring to conquer their territory. In addition, the destruction of their city economic improvements and the elimination of their roads will hurt their economy badly, severly limiting their ability to suporrt their units, and maybe causing many of them to be disbanded, making it even easier to conquer them when you bring in land forces. All in all, any intelligent MP player would just give in to the extortion and hope to make up their disadvange on another day. Its hard to believe that people think that you can't eliminate land units with naval units.



Long live Her Majesty's Navy! (If only she had a better name then Tourist Tina.........)

Last edited by Objectivist on 12-08-2002 at 20:02

	11-08-2002 22:17									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Still no pic... what are you trying to load? I find that cropped GIFs work best.

	11-08-2002 23:11									#3
	loading the pic Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Im trying to load a .jpg. Im using the "" vB code but it dosent seem to be working..... I even attached the picture in the last post but it seems that didnt work either..... what I did was

"IMG"c:/filelib/navalpower2.jpg"/Img"

(with open and closed brackets where the quotation marks were)


That didnt work though..... if you could tell me how one can post a picture to view in the forums i would appreciate it, i looked in the faq, but I didnt see anything on how to do it in there. Im gonna try something different to see it it works...... if there is no visible picture any instructions on how to post viewable pictures in the forum would be greatly appreciated.

Attachment: navalpower2.jpg
This has been downloaded 238 time(s).

	11-08-2002 23:56									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

It looks like you figured it out.

Anyway ... all you need to do is use the 'attach file' box (not the Vb code) and attach a jpg. You can only have one pic per post and it has to appear at the end.

Of course, if you upload some pics to some webspace then you can link to them using the Vb code.
The 'attached' pics can originate from your hard drive, however.

	11-08-2002 23:58									#5
	Re: loading the pic Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Objectivist "IMG"c:/filelib/navalpower2.jpg"/Img"

ahh ... this is your problem. The image here is stored on your hard drive (note the c:/ ). The code just tells the forum to search for it and display it in your post. It probably works on your machine because you have the file ... we don't have it, though, which means the forum can't find it.

	12-08-2002 00:14									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hey objectivist, good job on Hammurabi.
Thank god he didn't have any airforce either!

But could you please edit your first post to include a warning that this thread is a spoiler for AU103? Some people playing don't know what the map looks like...

	12-08-2002 00:14									#7
	figured it out Tired of ads?

yea, your right, thats why I originally tried attaching the file when i called the code, im assuming when I previewed my original reply it cleared the attached file, else it should have displayed the attached file. Anyway now that I have it all figured out lets get onto the discussion on naval power and all those leet battleships I had.

	12-08-2002 00:33									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

You got up to Computers and Mass Production before researching Atomic Theory?

Nice job, btw... was there any naval opposition?

	12-08-2002 01:11									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Theseus You got up to Computers and Mass Production before researching Atomic Theory?

I guess the Mech Infantry is a Babylonian one.

	12-08-2002 02:00									#10
	Re: figured it out Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Objectivist Anyway now that I have it all figured out lets get onto the discussion on naval power and all those leet battleships I had.

Great move. I was on the receiving end of such an attack in a recent game. The Americans and Persians ganged up on me and started attacking my northern colonies. Note the enemy Carrier.



Fortunately, I had a small airforce of my own.

http://www.zachriel.com/gotm9/ad1800-Conspiracy.htm

	12-08-2002 02:17									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Part of the point of AU 103 is to learn to control the seas... I intend to prevent such enemy forces from ever becoming an issue.

	12-08-2002 02:42									#12
	How ?!? Increase Your PM Length

The way I see it, the only way to stop much a massive naval fleet, is to have one of your own.... which oddly enough means that in MP Navies will become very important, much more so then they ever seemed in single player because a human player will be to use a navy to inflict more damage then the AI could ever dream of doing.

	12-08-2002 03:47									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Never let it get built...I've been Privateering like crazy, and now I'm building a huge IC and Destroyer fleet.

I'm going on total interdiction and disruption: Anybody who starts to venture out on to the high seas becomes a target... then destroy production capabilities, and they'll never be able to build a modern fleet in serious numbers.

	12-08-2002 03:48									#14
	Re: How ?!? Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Objectivist . . . the AI could ever dream of doing.

"Will I dream?" asks the computer HAL in 2010.

	12-08-2002 04:31									#15
	MP Enter the AD-FREE zone

Preventive building might work in single player but in MP all the other players could be doing the same thing you are

	12-08-2002 05:20									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by alexman But could you please edit your first post to include a warning that this thread is a spoiler for AU103? Some people playing don't know what the map looks like...

COULD YOU, PLEASE?

	12-08-2002 20:04									#17
	didnt change forum topic Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I edited the first post but it didnt change the forum topic. It shouldnt be that big a deal though cause most people who are going to play the map probably already have.

	12-08-2002 20:08									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Thanks!

	12-08-2002 22:04									#19
	Re: Naval Power...... with picutres!(AU 103 Spoiler included) Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Objectivist This picture proves the value of naval forces, once you eliminate the opposing civs navy (which most comp civs and players keep rather small) your free to destroy many centures worth of worker and city improvements. (The Babylonian continent I surrounded was covered in railroads, irrigation, and mines)

The destruction is significant and clearly evident; and I don't dispute that naval forces can be a powerful component of a war machine.

However, two points: (1) a player who understands how to counter such naval power would never let it get to this point -- bombers / fighters would be bombarding your battleships and stacks of artillery (immune to naval bombardment) would also be reducing your battleships to one HP pretty quickly; only then would enemy naval forces sneak out of port to sink a ship or two before retreating to the safety of the harbor. And (2) I count 29 battleships in the screen shot - at 200 shields a piece, that's almost 6,000 shields worth of military firepower. Give me 6,000 shields of production and I could do just as much damage with just about any military unit in the game (imagine 500+ warriors landing and starting the pillage runs). The screenshot says as much about production power (and choices on what to use it for - i.e., military units) as it does about naval power.

Catt

	12-08-2002 22:19									#20
	Production Power Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Your point is well made, however since this was the AU 103 MOD I didnt have to actually build all of those battleships, I upgraded them from Ironclads. This might sound like an imbalance but keep in mind that to upgrade 1 iron clad it costs 240 gold. I upgraded 40 Iron clads so that comes out to 9600 gold. This might not sound like alot but keep in mind the limited amount of land you begin the senario. Though your right about the combined arms being able to own a fleet like that, the question is would you be able to concentrate your forces like that if you were at war with another land power? More importantly I doubt anyone would actually build that many BBs in a multiplayer game, i just thought it would be fun to see what they could do.

	12-08-2002 23:42									#21
	Re: Production Power Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Objectivist . . . i just thought it would be fun to see what they could do.

I agree! Looks like it was fun!

Catt

	13-08-2002 04:20									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

'Give me 6,000 shields of production and I could do just as much damage with just about any military unit in the game (imagine 500+ warriors landing and starting the pillage runs). '

I see what you mean here Catt, but for an Island invasion if pilliging is your aim you're going to need 2 sets of folks here, 1- The Transports, 2- The People who do the damage.

How many transports would 500 warriors need??


Personally, I would opt for niether approaches, I would use a outdated unit like Cavalry, which I'd probably have loads lying around after medieval times, and when i'm done dismantling the AI's terrain the Cavalry are not completely useless, as they still have decent values.

	13-08-2002 04:54									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Rothy I see what you mean here Catt, but for an Island invasion if pilliging is your aim you're going to need 2 sets of folks here, 1- The Transports, 2- The People who do the damage. How many transports would 500 warriors need??

You're quite right of course; I was merely providing a somewhat facetious example to illustrate my main point that the screenshot conveyed more of a sense of total power rather than naval power. I would guess that 40 or so mechanized infantry (and the transports and escorts to get them there ) could probably do the job just as well and just as quicky (or faster).