13-08-2002 16:52									#1
	Suggestion: 2nd Forum Got spare money?

All the recently-added elections threads, the SMC threads and others have left very little room for roleplay, jokes and other stuff in the 1st page. As we progress in the game, threads will be pushed to the 2nd page much faster since the game will become more complicated and more proposals and discussion threads will be started. Or you can look at it the other way and say that with all the roleplay and joke threads and the occasional Jungle Gazzette threads there's gonna be too little room for serious threads.
I therefore suggest that we open a 2nd forum for the Civ3 Demo Game. This thread will be dedicated to gameplay-related issues only while the 2nd forum will be the place for everything else: jokes, roleplay threads, The Jungle Gazzette, things like naming our cities which are not essential for the game and so on.

Any thoughts, as well as suggestions for a name for the 2nd forum would be appreciated.

	13-08-2002 17:12									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

sigh.... sub forums...

government
roll play
turns
institutes/strategy
other

	13-08-2002 17:48									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Whoa whoa hold it there, that's a bit too much. Separating the game to so many sub forums would make it harder to keep track of it.

	13-08-2002 17:49									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Subforums? There won't be any. Stop dreaming.

	13-08-2002 18:04									#5
	Got spare money?

When important threads start dropping to page two, opinions will change.
Come on people, have some vision. Or at least explain why you object to sub forums.

	13-08-2002 18:12									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Lol, what important threads are you talking about? How we should call our Banana currency? Or the dual-identity poll? Is there really a grain of importance in all that spam?

Well, seriously, subforums are a nice to have, but MarkG doesn't like them, or has other reasons not to put them up. So unless you can say, how you're going to convince the 'Poly owners, all speculations about subforums will remain... well... dreams.

	13-08-2002 18:13									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Subforums are not allowed, IIRC. You have to ask the mods. I mean, gOdZ.

Edit: sorry, double information. Sir Ralph said all.

Last edited by Aro on 13-08-2002 at 18:20

	13-08-2002 18:36									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

As I understand it we've asked them several times, and they don't want to do it. Maybe because everyone else would want them.

Until we make pseudo sub forums by having topped threads of each topic have links to threads inside their topic, everything is going to be a mess. I expect it will stay a mess.

	13-08-2002 18:46									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Epistax As I understand it we've asked them several times, and they don't want to do it. Maybe because everyone else would want them. Until we make pseudo sub forums by having topped threads of each topic have links to threads inside their topic, everything is going to be a mess. I expect it will stay a mess.

Hey, I'm working on it. Check out my organization thread, and add your input.

edit:http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=58658 here, go there and make some suggestions.

	13-08-2002 18:47									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

subforums may mean a little bit more organization, but when it comes down to it all they mean is extra clicks and loading time to see the new posts.

	13-08-2002 18:54									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

the only contra of mark was that the participation was not high enough to justify subforums.
maybe he changed his mind about it as the participation goes up?

keeping track of new posts would be easy as you can see whether a new post is in a subforum in the icon in front of it.

	13-08-2002 19:10									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Lol, what important threads are you talking about? How we should call our Banana currency? Or the dual-identity poll?

You got me all wrong. What I was afraid of was that threads like the banana currency thing, which is actually more popular than many Machiavelli Institude/War Academy/Thinkers Guild/etc' threads I've seen will push the essential threads off to page 2.
Look at what we have in front of us now: there are 30 threads in page 1. 10 are election-related, 9 of which are topped. There are 7 other topped threads. 5 other threads are not gameplay-related (the Phoenatican embassy, the currency thread etc'). This leaves us with 8 (!!!) threads for War Academy threads, Machiavelli Institute threads, SMC plans and suchlikes.
Already we are having this kind of trouble. The Impeachment Amendment Poll, which is not related to Civ but is very important IMHO needs to be advertised in other threads and be bumped once a day so people would pay attention to it.

Yes, I know the elections aren't gonna last forever and we'll have more free space soon, but as the game progresses there will be need for more serious threads. On the other hand, the number of members will grow which will result in more non-serious, "just plain fun" threads. Eventually the two will clash.

This is basically why I think we should have sub forums. However, you've made it clear to me that any further efforts I make will probably be in vain because the mods are against this, so I'll just save me the trouble and drop the matter now.
Being a novice here, I do not know much about the history of the Apolyton forums as you do. Please be a bit more patient with me. There's really no need for any "is there really a grain of importance in all that spam?" kind of talk.

	13-08-2002 19:22									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by civman2000 subforums may mean a little bit more organization, but when it comes down to it all they mean is extra clicks and loading time to see the new posts.

Won't we be facing the same problem if we'll have to look for threads in page 2?
And another point in favor of sub forums: some citizens don't like the roleplaying and the humor threads. If we separate those from the serious part of the game then these people won't have to search through humor threads which they disapprove of anyway just to get to the ones they deem to be important.

	13-08-2002 19:50									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Subforums would be nice, but we've been given a resounding NAY from at least one of the faceZ of the gOdZ, and I think we need some more participation before we petition again.

UnOrthO's ideas seem to be the best to date, and I hope everyone seriously considers them. One or two threads with links to all the important stuff, as well as some of the more fun threads. Two clicks to get to whichever of these threads you like, instead of searching, searching searching.

	13-08-2002 19:58									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yeah it's a good start.

I wish we'd have one government thread topped, with links to all other government threads, EXCEPT for possible the join thread, which we want as visible as possible.

	13-08-2002 19:59									#16
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If we can't have subforums I think it still be achieved with a single topped thread with links to other threads.

For Example:

((First Post))

EXECUTIVE LINKS
Poll List (Link to Second Post) - NOTE: If the person in charge of polls changes, the new person can make a new post and the link could be altered to that new post.
.....yada yada yada

GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS
War Academy (Link to Seventh Post)
.....yada yada yada

OTHER INSTITUTIONS (ROLEPLAY)
The Beaten Banana-Tavern in Ubergorsk(Link to thread)
OR
City of Ubergorsk (Link to post 23) - NOTE: Post could me made by Mayor of Ubergorsk and that post could link to Ubergorsk Related Threads.


((Second Post))
Official Currency Poll(Link to appropriate thread)
Official French Invasion Poll(Link to Appropriate thread)
.....yada yada yada


((Seventh Post))
War Academy-Discussion of invasion of France(Link to Appropriate thread)
..yada yada yada


This way the job of tracking and updating thread links can be delegated to members who are actually involved and interested in those particular links. Thread starters can PM the respective member about new links and the President/VicePresident(whoever is in charge of the topped thread) only has to edit posts when the member in charge of a particular set of links changes.

With only one thread it leaves MUCH more space on the front page for recently active threads.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 13-08-2002 at 20:44

	13-08-2002 20:32									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Shiber Being a novice here, I do not know much about the history of the Apolyton forums as you do. Please be a bit more patient with me. There's really no need for any "is there really a grain of importance in all that spam?" kind of talk.

Well, the word "seriously" in my second sentence should have implied that the first was meant not very serious. Anyway, the mentioned threads are spam without any doubt, because they do nothing for the game's success. But I agree, that a bit of spam is tolerable and makes a part of the fun of the game.

And yes: Drop that matter. It doesn't pay the effort.

	13-08-2002 20:58									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

UnOrthOdOx's idea is going to be the best thing for us, so that the important stuff is in one topped thread with links to all the vital threads. Then we can reduce the number of topped threads, and the serious person can go right there for what they need.

The spam is too much in this game, skywalker himself has nearly 50 threads of spam, I mean really, if you have important roleplaying (like mine, which is not spam ), send it to the Jungle Gazette, c/o UnOrthOdOx or Donal Graeme as a story related to the game.

	13-08-2002 20:59									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

SR, the dual identity poll is not spam.

We've established that our active citizenry (those replying and voting in the last few days) are composed of roughly 50% students (whether high school or uni or college or whatnot), many of whom will likely see a drop in their ability to participate when school starts up again (for majority of NA and perhaps Europe, begins soon). We've already noted that ministerial responsibilities and time commitments clash with real-life commitments and are preventing many interested people from running. This establishes that we *may* have further difficulty in filling positions once summer vacation for NA ends. Further support for moving to turnthreads instead of turnchats, or as a basis to promote and promulgate further discussion as how to improve participation in light of real-life obligations.

Another way of doing so might be just to inquire how much time people expect they can spend on the C3DG game in the upcoming year, but perhaps this method makes the poll more interesting. Furthermore, it indicates priority and flexibility of the real-life commitments and a clue as to the competing interests of our participants. Job demands, school schedules, or the party life of univ/colleges...

Unless I'm seriously mistaken in my worldview, if we discount addictions (such as those of UO players), obligations in an online game will always take a back seat to real-life obligations and more palpably interesting activities.

The one area I would change if I were to repoll would be to inquire about other obligations, such as familial duties whether filial, spousal, or parental. The poll gives lots of information (if we take certain assumptions based on the social and cultural mores of "the West") in terms of occupational time-use but failed to inquire about the other strong obligations of life.

	13-08-2002 21:02									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Not everyone shares your opinion about these threads Sir Ralph. The currency thread currently spans over 3 pages.
I agree that the amount of fun threads should be limited (at least until we have sub forums, if that's ever going to happen), but they certainly shouldn't be called spam. That wouldn't be very mature IMHO.

	14-08-2002 00:58									#21
	Put an end to popups!

Shiber: if you limit the number of fun threads, you will also limit the fun for some people. Be aware of this.

	14-08-2002 01:18									#22
	Remove this text

I'm aware of that. I personally find the fun threads to be the most entertaining part of the game. However, it's either we get sub forums, follow ortho's plan or control the number of fun threads or we won't be able to play the game when we reach the late medieval times.

	14-08-2002 02:14									#23
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb If we can't have subforums I think it still be achieved with a single topped thread with links to other threads. For Example: ((First Post)) EXECUTIVE LINKS Poll List (Link to Second Post) - NOTE: If the person in charge of polls changes, the new person can make a new post and the link could be altered to that new post. .....yada yada yada GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS War Academy (Link to Seventh Post) .....yada yada yada OTHER INSTITUTIONS (ROLEPLAY) The Beaten Banana-Tavern in Ubergorsk(Link to thread) OR City of Ubergorsk (Link to post 23) - NOTE: Post could me made by Mayor of Ubergorsk and that post could link to Ubergorsk Related Threads. ((Second Post)) Official Currency Poll(Link to appropriate thread) Official French Invasion Poll(Link to Appropriate thread) .....yada yada yada ((Seventh Post)) War Academy-Discussion of invasion of France(Link to Appropriate thread) ..yada yada yada This way the job of tracking and updating thread links can be delegated to members who are actually involved and interested in those particular links. Thread starters can PM the respective member about new links and the President/VicePresident(whoever is in charge of the topped thread) only has to edit posts when the member in charge of a particular set of links changes. With only one thread it leaves MUCH more space on the front page for recently active threads.

That is VERY similar to what I am already planning. Except, I seperate out posts by the different minister's, ie.
War academy under SMC, Machievelli institute under FAM. I will also include links to the more role play topics, like the currency poll under MoE, or I may make a seperate role playing section if it gets too large, or I can't figure where to put some of them.

I think the CoL needs a seperate topped thread, and the sign up form should stay. All others, I think, are up to debate.