14-08-2002 13:14									#1
	Question about Upgrading units Tired of ads?

Last night I started a game on Civ 3 Patch 1.29 as the Persians. I have about ten wariors running around when I discoverred Iron Working. I have two resources of iron both have roads to them. The problem is even though I can build imortals I cant upgrade my warriors to them. And some of the warriors are elite so I wanted to keep them. But it just wont let me upgrade can someone help

For the record the game was not a MOD

	14-08-2002 14:46									#2
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Do you have barracks to do the upgrade in? Do you have money enough? The upgrade from warriors to immortals may be costly... I find the lack of money to be the case most often.

Note: I know these two reasons are obvious and you probably checked them... but anyway, the simplest things first. If it is not that, could you post a savegame?

EDIT: I have just noticed your note about the elite warriors. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but keep in mind that they will not upgrade to elite immortals. Elite units upgrade to veteran units (while regulars upgrade to regulars and veterans upgrade to veterans).

Last edited by vondrack on 14-08-2002 at 15:01

	14-08-2002 15:07									#3
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Thanx for the reply I do have barracks, just not in the city were I wanted to upgrade My mistake

Also I dod not know that upgrading units made them go doewn in exsperience

	14-08-2002 18:40									#4
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack EDIT: I have just noticed your note about the elite warriors. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but keep in mind that they will not upgrade to elite immortals. Elite units upgrade to veteran units (while regulars upgrade to regulars and veterans upgrade to veterans).

There are two ways to look at this:

1. It's annoying, particularly if you mod your game to increase the HPs available with experience

2. The experience levels could be said to indicate that unit's proficciency with their weapons; changing the weapons means the troops have to learn all over again.

	15-08-2002 01:25									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Deathwalker Also I dod not know that upgrading units made them go doewn in exsperience

Well, only elite units. The other units retain their rank. If you can't afford to upgrade them all, units of the same type (e.g., warriors) should generally be upgraded in the following order:

-Below-elite units in order of rank (first veteran, then regular, then conscript). They all cost the same to upgrade, but an upgrade to a veteran unit is more valuable than an upgrade to a conscript unit, for example.
-Elite units that have already generated a Great Leader (Elite*) and thus cannot do so again. (They can generate another GL after they are upgraded and promoted back to elite.)
-Remaining elite units.

What bugs me about the loss in rank involved in upgrading elite units is that it's one of the things Firaxis stuck in the game without mentioning it in any of the documentation (as far as I know -- I have'nt actually read the whole manual and readme, never mind the Civilopedia).

	15-08-2002 02:47									#6
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quote: Well, only elite units. The other units retain their rank.

All units return to their INITIAL rank when upgraded.

Units created as veterans return to veteran.

Units created as regulars return to regular EVEN IF they had been promoted all the way to elite.

Same for conscripts should you have any of the excreable slackers.

This is most noticable with your earliest troops that you build before you have any barracks. Since most troops will be started as veterans it doesn't come up much the the regulars return to regular. Those early warriors tend to die off anyway and can only be upgaded to swordsmen or UU units that also don't have an upgrade.

	15-08-2002 04:00									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred All units return to their INITIAL rank when upgraded. Units created as veterans return to veteran. Units created as regulars return to regular EVEN IF they had been promoted all the way to elite.

However, if a unit has a HP bonus, they lose that when upgrading. So +1HP Hoplite created at a barracks (5 HPs) would only have 4 when upgraded to a Rifleman.

	15-08-2002 17:34									#8
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I am having a problem with upgrading units as well. I am right in thinking that the upgrade button won't appear if you dont have enough money in bank. The only other reason it won't be there is because you don't have the resource.

An aside issue, if i have started playing a game on version 1.16 i think can i use the new patch in the middle of a game or should i wait til i finish the game.

Thanks
George

	15-08-2002 17:59									#9
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To upgrade a unit:

The unit must be in a city with a barracks.

You must have the resources available in that city not just somewhere. The resource must be connected by road, airport, or harbor to the city. If the resource is by trade then it goes through the capitol and that must be connected rather than a resource tile.

You must have enough simolians to pay the bill.

You can use the SHIFT-U command to upgrade all eligible units at once IF AND ONLY IF you have the cash for all the units at once. Otherwise you must do them one at a time. This can be done from the Military Advisor screen by right clicking on the unit. Units that don't have the option may be in the fieldor in an inelegible city.

quote: An aside issue, if i have started playing a game on version 1.16 i think can i use the new patch in the middle of a game or should i wait til i finish the game.

YES.

You can probably play it out at least if you are not playing a modified version of the game. Maybe even then depending on the mod.

I have noticed that games continued from prior patches are more likely to have strange glitches. So yes you can do it and yes you should wait till you finish the present game at least if you are near the end. The glitches usually aren't that bad though except with modified games.

	15-08-2002 23:33									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred All units return to their INITIAL rank when upgraded.

Ooh. I had it wrong then.

Well... that just sucks. In large part because it would be a lot of work to keep track of which units started out with which rank, just as with keeping track of which elites produced Great Leaders before the 1.29 patch. Why can't all units of the same type and rank be the same, without these annoying, underlying, invisible differences?

	15-08-2002 23:43									#11
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Easily handled. Just build regulars after the early game and don't worry about it anyway.

	16-08-2002 00:36									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Easily handled. Just build regulars after the early game and don't worry about it anyway.

Did you really mean regulars? I guess veterans would be more obvious...?

Anyway, thanks for correcting me regarding the rank demotions. I have never noticed it worked this way, as - with the exception of the first few warriors and maybe spearmen, which all die early - I always produce military units in barracked cities only... so all my upgrades are to veterans...

	16-08-2002 05:30									#13
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quote: Did you really mean regulars? I guess veterans would be more obvious...?

Well it wasn't a typo but no I didn't actually mean that. Why I said Regulars I have no idea.

It is indeed Veterans that I was thinking about, at least I was thinking about what barracks produce anyway. My mind was confused I guess.

I do the same as you. I have been playing off and on since the day after the game came out and I only noticed this fairly recently. I don't think it was changed in a patch either. I tended to ignore my warriors and not upgrade them because they rarely survived the exploration phase.