14-08-2002 18:29									#1
	Space and Throne room ?? nd more Increase the size of your Attachments

Could anyone tell my why (in my opinion) these two great features where taken out of CtP2 after being in C:CtP, i loved upgrading my throne room(capital) after getting a certain amount of points through the ages and i also REALLY liked space + all the units that went with it, tille imps, city style and wonders (great ladder or something like that where u got a free space city above the city that built it). And the victory condition, where u had to find the wormhole. It was so cool!

WHY did they take this out. I read on the very bad and un-updated official website that space didnt add anthing to the game so they took it out ??? Sorry but in my opinoin it added loads and with the possibility of modding it could of added much much more.

Is there anyway to put these features back in, Space(highly doubt) and Throne room (i notice there is a .txt in the \ctp2_data\default\gamedata that is named "Throne.txt" is this tottaly excluded from the game or can it be enabled again. and what is it that C:CtP has that CtP2 has that makes space not implementable(well im assuming its not)



+ Look at these screenshots one showing how in doplomacy the picture of the leader as well as the nations flag was going to be visible (CtP2 only shows the flag in the final release)

+ And the other shows a diplomacy model much more complex than the one released with the final CtP2 could any of these features be implemented 2 ?

http://www.gamespy.com/asp/image.asp?/previews/november00/calltopower2/calltopower004.jpg

http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/027/190/shot2.html

	14-08-2002 20:51									#2
	Support Apolyton

yo there's a thone thing in the userprofile.txt that i leave on along w/ everything else that looks nice
the good animation is tight and there should be this option in the ingame menus
anyway the throne something =yeah has no effect

	14-08-2002 21:31									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Honestly, I always hated the throne room appearing and thought of it as a waste of time - but as long as you could turn it off who cares. As for the space layer, that was completly messing up the game in my opinion. There's enough room on the regular map, heck I even don't use the undersea cities in Ctp2 as much as you possibly could. In my opinion the space layer was a failed try to make the game more interesting at the end when the human player dominates. With the challenge of modded CtP2 I'm glad when I finally can kill the AI's of and be done with it. Just my humble opinion...

	14-08-2002 21:33									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Space has been considered before, and written off as impossible without exe hacking, despite how much space junk Activision left in the final release.
I never really exploited space properly either, but I suppose you could make an interesting scenario with it, or maybe it is more important in MP?

The only things more complex in that diplomacy screenshot are the number of requests available. Requests I think are possible to add, if you can get the AI to understand how to respond.
(Its quite wierd to see that early version of CtP2 though)

The leader pics were dropped I think, because whenever you send a request it displays your background parchment, and so presumably would have displayed your picture. Does SAP use altered parchments, or is it just Cradle? I think that brings the leader pictures back in.

	14-08-2002 22:04									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Space has been considered before, and written off as impossible without exe hacking, despite how much space junk Activision left in the final release. I never really exploited space properly either, but I suppose you could make an interesting scenario with it, or maybe it is more important in MP?

Actual space was very easy to exploit just send a lot of troops into space of course you had to build the Gaja Controller first in order to avoid a Global Catastrophy. Then park an huge army over the teritory of your enemy, once the whole army is there just drop them all from the sky and one turn later your opponent was history. Oh of course no border violation while you parked your troops over the enemy's territory.

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat The only things more complex in that diplomacy screenshot are the number of requests available. Requests I think are possible to add, if you can get the AI to understand how to respond. (Its quite wierd to see that early version of CtP2 though)

Yeah you see here just some CTP2 alpha graphics.

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat The leader pics were dropped I think, because whenever you send a request it displays your background parchment, and so presumably would have displayed your picture. Does SAP use altered parchments, or is it just Cradle? I think that brings the leader pictures back in.

Actual you see the civ parchment on the picture here, too. And it worked, but then they obviously screwed something up in the ctp2.exe, so that you can't see the pictures in the game but they are partof the according *.zfs file.

-Martin

	14-08-2002 22:28									#6
	Suffering from ads?

quote: The leader pics were dropped I think, because whenever you send a request it displays your background parchment, and so presumably would have displayed your picture. Does SAP use altered parchments, or is it just Cradle? I think that brings the leader pictures back in.

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat.

Well i know MM2 adds the leader heads but takes out the parchment, isnt there anyway to add it back in as shown in the screenshot?

Space is out the question but could the throne room be re-implemented ?

+Request they mass troops
Request Invasion
Request break agreements
Request Nuke Reduction
Request bio weapon reduction
Request nano weapon reduction
Request annual gold (as in Civ3)

Could these be added to the diplomacy model and the AI be scripted to use, understand and take note of them?
It would most likely be a hell of a task but these are great options in my opinion that where not included in the final of CtP2. Could these be put back into CtP2, i especially like (Request annual gold) and (request mass troops)

Furthermore would the AI need to be generally improved to use these diplomatic options eg "Request they mass troops" i play MM2 and thats one thing the AI seem to be bad at (along with some others)???

	14-08-2002 22:36									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I expect the annual gold would be quite easy. Peter would know.

The military ones are far less likely. The AI can't handle its own troops, let alone participate in a co-ordinated attack.

	15-08-2002 00:24									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

About space, keep dreaming. A long ago i started a thread about. everybody said it was impossible.
Now that i know the CTP2 egine i am also telling you that it is impossible. Yet it is in my plans a space scenario but nothing like CCTP
About the Throne only if the junk in the ctp2 files work wich i dont think so.
Peter Triggs even wrote a new request/give option. Wich asks if to cto stabilish embassies. Yet as far as I looked it is possible but only if you write over another type of request. Peter Triggs is our wise man of diplomacy lets wait to see what he has to say.

	15-08-2002 21:16									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think break agreement should be possible that would be a nice addition, too.
A stop war request would be nice, too. I this is also possible, just remember player1's war over script. The reduce weapon requests shouldn't be a problem, too. If the player or the AI accepts all the speceal weapons that are too much will be disbanded, and me be a strategy switch to avoid that the AI will build new speceal weapons. The anual gold stuff was in the original form buggy, but I think this could be resliced, yeah "oh, baby, show me your workaround face" Yes we all know these quotes from the tut2_main.slc get never old. For the invasion stuff, I think they never finished it, because it means all in the end war, but it would at least add some atmosphere.

For the throne room no idea if it would be possible but all the graphics from the throne room aren't in CTP2, so even if there is a slic function that opens the throne room expect a crash or nothing.

-Martin

	29-09-2002 17:14									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I was just wondering if we got the source code would we be able to add space back into ctp2???

It is mentioned quite abit in the ctp2.exe which im assuming are leftovers from the ctp.exe. If someone knew what they where doing could they not change them appropriatly or add any missing space bits from to the ctp2.exe whilst copy and pasting from the ctp1.exe surely they must be similar.?

	29-09-2002 20:37									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by SMIFFGIG I was just wondering if we got the source code would we be able to add space back into ctp2??? It is mentioned quite abit in the ctp2.exe which im assuming are leftovers from the ctp.exe. If someone knew what they where doing could they not change them appropriatly or add any missing space bits from to the ctp2.exe whilst copy and pasting from the ctp1.exe surely they must be similar.?

Well if we get the source code then everything is possible, the real problem is the problem of time, first you need time to understand the code. That is a real problem if you did not wrote the code yourself or you wrote it ages, ago. Therefore changes and additions need to be commented heavily. It will also depend on how much the code is commented by Activision's programers. Second you need also time to do the changes, the more complex the feature is the more difficuilt is it to do it, therefore bug fixing will have the highest priority and maybe UI modifications like be able to select 32 civs from within the game or to have room for 64 civs on the civ selection screen.

-Martin

	30-09-2002 04:30									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

BTW, whoever asked way back up there, SAP does have the leader pics.

Just on diplomacy, it is possible to have new proposals. Remember I originally had "break agreement" in diplomod. And interestingly enough, proposal 31 (from memory) is WAR, and in my testing it was possible to stop a war by telling Civa to break agreement 31 with civb.

	30-09-2002 13:27									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Dale
Why did you take these options out, there really good????